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Re: [XP] Re: cons of XP -- fixed bid contracts

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  • Laurent Bossavit
    ... I don t believe this could be a realistic description of an XP project, as it seems to me that 90% implies 90% of some linearly measurable original
    Message 1 of 38 , Mar 1, 2002
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      > Maybe 90% is available when the end of the release plan is
      > reached, which is okay because the business guys added 17% risk
      > contingency (in addition to 35% margin for profit) and since they
      > eventually exceed the target by only 11% the gross margin is actually
      > more like 38% and everyone goes home with bonuses.

      I don't believe this could be a realistic description of an XP project,
      as it seems to me that "90%" implies "90% of some linearly
      measurable original quantity", and the only such variable on a
      project is calendar time.

      By the end of the project, but also at any one time in between, I'd
      want to have solved enough of the customer's problem to have
      deserved the money they spent so far. You can't put percentages on
      this strategy, or compute a risk contingency.
    • Jim Standley
      Ooops, you sure did. I gotta read more slowly, and write more slowly yet. ... From: Peter Hansen To:
      Message 38 of 38 , Mar 2, 2002
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        Ooops, you sure did. I gotta read more slowly, and write more slowly yet.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Peter Hansen" <peter@...>
        To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:58 PM
        Subject: Re: [XP] Re: cons of XP -- fixed bid contracts


        > Jim Standley wrote:
        > >
        > > Peter Hansen wrote:
        > > > I also don't really agree that one can't reasonably accurately
        > > > label a project 90% complete at some point in time near the end,
        > > > if one is using XP. With other methods, the remaining 10% is the
        > > > 10% that takes another 90% of the time, while with XP delivering
        > > > business value in priority order, that 10% might realistically
        > > > represent 10% (or even less, or slightly more) of the remaining time.
        > > >
        > > Really? You have a list of stories with estimates. By the time you're
        > > nearly done you should be able to do very good estimates for the rest.
        When
        > > the estimate for the rest = 1/9 of what you've already done ...
        >
        > Uh, I really think we're saying exactly the same thing. The only
        > difference is I unwisely used a confusing double-negative in my first
        > sentence... Sorry about that! :)
        >
        > > This discussion misses that at 90% done XP should have demonstrated some
        > > other values:
        >
        > I hope we didn't miss these things at all. I thought we'd covered all
        > of them by this point.
        >
        > > * When you're 90% done, you have 90% of the stories 100% done, not 100%
        of
        > > them 90% done.
        > > * The customers have value for their money. If they stop the project,
        they
        > > get what they paid for.
        > > * The customers have a good sense of project velocity. They can decide
        with
        > > confidence whether or not to go over budget and keep going.
        > > * The developers have proven themselves over and over by delivering
        useful
        > > stuff. Or not.
        > > * BTW: Any project that is +- 10% is pretty darned close!
        >
        > Yup. Agrees with what I believe.
        >
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