Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [XP] Re: cons of XP -- fixed bid contracts and "external" interfaces

Expand Messages
  • Kyle Cordes
    ... Here s a more cynical perspective. It will put you in a worse negotiating position when the money runs out, because they will probably take the 90%
    Message 1 of 38 , Feb 27, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      > development, XP will at least put you in a *very good* negotiating
      > position when the money runs out: Delivering 90% of the value for
      > 100% of the money can be a much better option than 100% of the value
      > for 200% of the money. (...or 300%, 400%, or more times as much

      Here's a more cynical perspective. It will put you in a worse
      negotiating position when the money runs out, because they will probably
      take the 90% functionality (it was the most important 90%) and go home.
      If you instead had delivered almost no working software by that point,
      then they would be just about forced to keep paying you, in desperate
      misplaced hope of getting something. Thus you will be better off since
      you will continue to collect. :-) (large smile, I certainly don't
      recommend this if you value your relationships with customers!)


      [ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
      [ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and ]
      [ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide, ]
      [ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]
    • Jim Standley
      Ooops, you sure did. I gotta read more slowly, and write more slowly yet. ... From: Peter Hansen To:
      Message 38 of 38 , Mar 2, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Ooops, you sure did. I gotta read more slowly, and write more slowly yet.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Peter Hansen" <peter@...>
        To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:58 PM
        Subject: Re: [XP] Re: cons of XP -- fixed bid contracts


        > Jim Standley wrote:
        > >
        > > Peter Hansen wrote:
        > > > I also don't really agree that one can't reasonably accurately
        > > > label a project 90% complete at some point in time near the end,
        > > > if one is using XP. With other methods, the remaining 10% is the
        > > > 10% that takes another 90% of the time, while with XP delivering
        > > > business value in priority order, that 10% might realistically
        > > > represent 10% (or even less, or slightly more) of the remaining time.
        > > >
        > > Really? You have a list of stories with estimates. By the time you're
        > > nearly done you should be able to do very good estimates for the rest.
        When
        > > the estimate for the rest = 1/9 of what you've already done ...
        >
        > Uh, I really think we're saying exactly the same thing. The only
        > difference is I unwisely used a confusing double-negative in my first
        > sentence... Sorry about that! :)
        >
        > > This discussion misses that at 90% done XP should have demonstrated some
        > > other values:
        >
        > I hope we didn't miss these things at all. I thought we'd covered all
        > of them by this point.
        >
        > > * When you're 90% done, you have 90% of the stories 100% done, not 100%
        of
        > > them 90% done.
        > > * The customers have value for their money. If they stop the project,
        they
        > > get what they paid for.
        > > * The customers have a good sense of project velocity. They can decide
        with
        > > confidence whether or not to go over budget and keep going.
        > > * The developers have proven themselves over and over by delivering
        useful
        > > stuff. Or not.
        > > * BTW: Any project that is +- 10% is pretty darned close!
        >
        > Yup. Agrees with what I believe.
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.