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RE: [XP] Re: Weaknesses of XP

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  • Bryan Dollery
    Kenneth Tyler wrote ... XP says experiment, not speculate (rephrased from Ron). This is a test of a team s ability to work together. Possibly, the only test of
    Message 1 of 144 , Jan 1, 2002
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      Kenneth Tyler wrote
      > > So too, the test of any team is in a time of crisis. If you want to know
      > if
      > > your team has gelled don't take them go-carting, cut their current
      > iteration
      > > time in half, if they survive they'll be gelled, if they don't then you
      > > couldn't depend on them anyway.
      > seems like a very un-xpish thing to do.

      XP says experiment, not speculate (rephrased from Ron). This is a test of a
      team's ability to work together. Possibly, the only test of a team's ability
      to work together under pressure is for it to try to work together under
      pressure.

      The question is, do you want to find any problems when the pressure is real,
      or when it doesn't 'really' matter?

      However, I don't really understand your objection, so I can't really answer
      it.

      > if you mean "cut the
      > time they have
      > to finish the current interation in half" who you can depend on
      > may change
      > from day to day

      That was sort of the point.

      If you can't depend on everyone to 'pull through' then what are you going to
      do when real pressure hits? Wouldn't you rather know in advance that your
      team just can't deal with it?

      Anyway, I'm just speculating on good ways to test a team in a crisis
      situation, I'm sure that there are many others, but I think that all of them
      boil down to 'apply presure, see what breaks'.

      Bryan



      b r y a n d o l l e r y | c e o
      c h a o s e n g i n e e r s
      +64 (0)21 330607
      http://www.ChaosEngineers.co.nz

      The difference between me and the other surrealists is that I'm a
      surrealist.
      - Dali




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    • Bryan Dollery
      Hiya, I ran a project a couple of years ago. Whilst interviewing contractors we ensured that we mentioned that this project was on a tight schedule, and that
      Message 144 of 144 , Jan 4, 2002
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        Hiya,

        I ran a project a couple of years ago. Whilst interviewing contractors we
        ensured that we mentioned that this project was on a tight schedule, and
        that it may be necessary, towards the end, to do some overtime. These were
        contractors, and they'd get paid for the hours they work, and as we were
        being so reasonable (admitting it up front) we thought that they'd not have
        a problem with it.

        Just about everyone we hired, and we only hired the best, said that they had
        real problems with this, but we hired them anyway, because they were so
        good. Ultimately, OT wasn't necessary, because we finished the project
        on-time, and on budget, using agile techniques (it wasn't XP, but it was
        good in that situation).

        Everyone stayed focused, and worked hard, partially because they didn't want
        to do overtime.

        I think that the problem here was cultural. I have recently come to
        understand that highly-paid kiwis (New Zealanders) want to have time to
        enjoy their lives, not piss around in work. I have a friend, who is a senior
        doctor at a local emergency department, who tells me that at the end of a
        shift the kiwi doctors just leave, even if they're in the middle of a case
        (he doesn't, he's not a kiwi).

        I come from England, and worked for a long while in London, which is a big
        commercial city like New York, Chicago, or Hong Kong. There you work until
        you drop, then you go and rest so that you can work some more the next day.
        For five years I only took Christmas week off, no other holidays, at all.

        Naturally, I emigrated to New Zealand, and now I've had the last three
        months off (although that isn't out of choice).

        Bryan





        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Mike Clark [mailto:mike@...]
        > Sent: 04 January 2002 13:12
        > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [XP] Re: Weaknesses of XP
        >
        >
        > attkeithray wrote:
        >
        > > --- In extremeprogramming@y..., Mike Clark <mike@c...> wrote:
        > > > I've never heard of a company requiring that new hires sign a
        > > contract to work more
        > > > than 40 hours per week. You seem to imply that they exist, and
        > > in fact they are the
        > > > norm in your region.
        > >
        > > This "expectation" is the norm for many companies in Silicon
        > > Valley. .. even one doing XP told me they expect 50-hour weeks.
        >
        > > Employement contracts don't talk about hours, but in the job
        > > interview (in many companies), if you don't agree with the
        > > interviewer's attitude that 50- or 60-hour weeks are "expected",
        > > you don't get hired.
        > >
        >
        > Interesting. Thanks for enlightening me with this report.
        >
        > This interview topic is fundamentally different than having
        > employees sign a contract
        > to work 50-hour weeks. I obviously read too much into the OP's statement:
        >
        > "Management hires people who promise to follow this strategy
        > - a contract is
        > established".
        >
        > Nevertheless, I've yet to interview with a company that had the
        > expectation for
        > overtime on a recurring basis. Then again, when necessary I've
        > worked some level of
        > overtime on every project I've been on. In retrospect, I can't
        > recall a situation
        > where it was expected from anyone other than myself. It was
        > usually a result of my own
        > optimistic estimates or failures to communicate effectively.
        >
        > Mike
        >
        >
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        >

        b r y a n d o l l e r y | c e o
        c h a o s e n g i n e e r s
        +64 (0)21 330607
        http://www.ChaosEngineers.co.nz

        The difference between me and the other surrealists is that I'm a
        surrealist.
        - Dali




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