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No version control

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  • Mike Bowler
    ... I ve run into a number of clients that didn t have version control when I arrived. One of my first recommendations is to install version control and start
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 31, 2001
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      > This is unreal. I've never worked on _any_ project that didn't
      > have version control.

      I've run into a number of clients that didn't have version control when I arrived.
      One of my first recommendations is to install version control and start using it.

      This particular client has me at a bit of a loss though since they're not using
      version control in two environments that I have no experience with: cobol development
      on a mainframe and Lotus Notes development.

      It's very easy to say "start using CVS", which a number of people here have said but
      to the best of my knowledge, CVS won't work in either of these environments. I'm
      hoping that there will be people here with mainframe or Notes experience who can give
      me some information about version control in these environments.

      Information about testing in these environments would be very useful too :-)

      The lack of version control is not something that they consider to be a problem. In
      fact, this only came to light because they are looking at XP and couldn't really
      understand how contineous integration would work.

      FWIW, all their java development uses CVS and has been using some flavour of version
      control all along.


      --
      Mike Bowler
      Principal, Gargoyle Software Inc.
      Voice: (416) 822-0973 | Email : mbowler@...
      Fax : (416) 822-0975 | Website: http://www.GargoyleSoftware.com
    • Jay Vashi
      Mike Bowler sez... ... using ... development ... I was a Notes developer for a while and I can attest to the fact that it is very difficult to do any version
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 31, 2001
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        Mike Bowler sez...
        >This particular client has me at a bit of a loss though since they're not
        using
        >version control in two environments that I have no experience with: cobol
        development
        >on a mainframe and Lotus Notes development.

        I was a Notes developer for a while and I can attest to the fact that it is
        very difficult
        to do any version control with Notes. However, since it is possible to copy
        individual design elements from one database to another, I thought check out
        could be done with that some how. Have a central database that is a copy of
        the database you are developing, copy elements from that db to the one you
        are working on (sort of like check out), do your stuff, and copy them back
        to the original check in (sort of like check in). The entire database can
        periodically be versioned in CVS or something. Lot's of manual work, and
        you have to track what is and isn't 'checked out' on your own.

        Well it turns out, someone else had this same idea, and formalized it into a
        product. Ives TeamStudio basically does this, but provides a nice interface
        and does locking, etc. I found out about them towards the end of my Notes
        career, so I've never used it. However, it looked like it was good.

        http://www.teamstudio.com/

        j
        --
        Jay Vashi
        jayu@...
      • dion@multitask.com.au
        ... it s ... [snip] ... version ... all ... This is some of the worst justification I ve read. There is at least one version control product for Notes, which
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 31, 2001
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          > Jireh Mak" <jirehm@...>

          > I've run into the excuses of "no version control in Notes" before, but
          it's
          > actually a symptom of sloppy thinking and succumbing to temptation.

          [snip]

          > Unlike VASmalltalk and VAJ, there are NO version control tools built in.
          > Worse even, you can't even partition Notes artifacts into modules easily
          > which makes team development(local and remote) difficult. I've heard
          > experienced Notes developers swear black and blue they can't user
          version
          > control because of the environment. If two teams make changes to two
          > branches from a root, the ONLY way to get them back together is to type
          all
          > the changes in again on one of the copies. :-(
          This is some of the worst justification I've read. There is at least one
          version control product for Notes, which is called Ciao, and is part of
          the TeamStudio set of tools for Notes. See http://www.teamstudio.com .

          As for they can't use version control because of the environment, that
          sounds like ignorance.

          And as for the "can't even partition Notes artifacts into modules easily",
          that sounds like poor design. We do Notes coding using LotusScript Classes
          and Script libraries. If your business logic is in a class, it's no
          different in partitioning to any other environment.

          I've been doing Notes development on and off for the last ten years
          almost, and the only issue I can see with XP and Notes is unit testing.
          However, the VBUnit stuff would be a good start. We've always done our own
          home grown stuff which is nowhere near as good/flexible as xUnit.
          --
          dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
          Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
          JavaNews: http://www.multitask.com.au/JavaNews
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