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RE: [XP] Improvement

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  • Bryan Dollery
    Bill wrote ... You use it because its an improvement over other methods. We all use it because its better, because it works, and that s an improvement. ... I
    Message 1 of 37 , Aug 30, 2001
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      Bill wrote
      > >wecaputo@...
      > >> Brian Dollery:
      > >> >Did we improve from the first project, to the second?
      > >>
      > >> Why is improvement so important?
      >
      > >Why is XP important?
      >
      > I can think of a lot of reasons, but the main one for me is that
      > it focuses
      > the team on the most important bits of a project better than other
      > techniques I have worked with.

      You use it because its an improvement over other methods. We all use it
      because its better, because it works, and that's an improvement.

      > Now back to the topic. I was asking a serious question.

      I know, and that was a serious answer.

      > If the first
      > project went well, why is improving over that, important?

      We want to minimise the cost and time taken to produce software. We may have
      done well the first time, but did we do our best? Can we do better? And,
      even if we can answer these questions, and come up with solutions, how do we
      test these solutions?

      What if XP isn't the best it can be. What if there is an even better
      solution. I know this community, we'll all happily drop XP in an instant if
      someone proves that they can do better with something else, if someone can
      prove an improvement.

      Now, I'm not suggesting that we're going to find something better than XP on
      this project. But, I am suggesting that we can learn to be better at XP.
      Learning requires feedback.

      In my example because the second project is shorter and easier people will
      tend to feel that they've been more successful at it than the first project.
      This is basically human. We reached a successful conclusion in less time,
      with less effort. It will feel better, or at the very least, just as good,
      as when we finished the first project.

      Feelings may be wrong though, they're so fallible that we have spent
      millennia trying to come up with so called empirical methods, so that we can
      have a non-emotive view of things. I want an empirical method of measuring
      the difference between two different projects.

      > Very often goals
      > are sought for their own ends.

      Hence Ron's favorite quote.

      > When the best someone can come up with for
      > why they want something is to answer with a deflecting question,
      > I start to
      > wonder if they even know why they want it. ;-)

      I really didn't mean to deflect your question with another, I really thought
      that it was obvious.

      Bryan
    • Bryan Dollery
      Bill wrote ... You use it because its an improvement over other methods. We all use it because its better, because it works, and that s an improvement. ... I
      Message 37 of 37 , Aug 30, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Bill wrote
        > >wecaputo@...
        > >> Brian Dollery:
        > >> >Did we improve from the first project, to the second?
        > >>
        > >> Why is improvement so important?
        >
        > >Why is XP important?
        >
        > I can think of a lot of reasons, but the main one for me is that
        > it focuses
        > the team on the most important bits of a project better than other
        > techniques I have worked with.

        You use it because its an improvement over other methods. We all use it
        because its better, because it works, and that's an improvement.

        > Now back to the topic. I was asking a serious question.

        I know, and that was a serious answer.

        > If the first
        > project went well, why is improving over that, important?

        We want to minimise the cost and time taken to produce software. We may have
        done well the first time, but did we do our best? Can we do better? And,
        even if we can answer these questions, and come up with solutions, how do we
        test these solutions?

        What if XP isn't the best it can be. What if there is an even better
        solution. I know this community, we'll all happily drop XP in an instant if
        someone proves that they can do better with something else, if someone can
        prove an improvement.

        Now, I'm not suggesting that we're going to find something better than XP on
        this project. But, I am suggesting that we can learn to be better at XP.
        Learning requires feedback.

        In my example because the second project is shorter and easier people will
        tend to feel that they've been more successful at it than the first project.
        This is basically human. We reached a successful conclusion in less time,
        with less effort. It will feel better, or at the very least, just as good,
        as when we finished the first project.

        Feelings may be wrong though, they're so fallible that we have spent
        millennia trying to come up with so called empirical methods, so that we can
        have a non-emotive view of things. I want an empirical method of measuring
        the difference between two different projects.

        > Very often goals
        > are sought for their own ends.

        Hence Ron's favorite quote.

        > When the best someone can come up with for
        > why they want something is to answer with a deflecting question,
        > I start to
        > wonder if they even know why they want it. ;-)

        I really didn't mean to deflect your question with another, I really thought
        that it was obvious.

        Bryan
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