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[extremeprogramming] Re: All the extras (I don't know about: Elves in the Night)

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... I m mostly with you on this one, Dave. While I wouldn t support lots of effort in building a trace log - certainly not at the expense of business value, it
    Message 1 of 38 , Jan 4, 2000
      At 09:04 AM 1/4/2000 -0600, Dave wrote:
      >And (at the risk of causing global offense) we're back to the old
      >Nuremberg defense - the customer told me to do it (or the anti-defense
      >- the customer never told me to do it). Somehow, I don't find that a
      >professional attitude. The customer is paying me to do the work
      >because I have particular skills and experience they don't have--they
      >are accountants, or bookmakers, or marketing folks, and I'm
      >JustAProgrammer. They don't want to know, nor do they have time to
      >find out, every single arcane detail of the work I do. I'm paid,
      >sometimes well ;-), to take that load from them.

      I'm mostly with you on this one, Dave. While I wouldn't support lots of
      effort in building a trace log - certainly not at the expense of business
      value, it is appropriate for programmers to apply all their skills. Just as
      Bob reminded us earlier that we don't forget how to do abstract classes and
      Dependency Inversion, we don't forget how to instrument our code, either.

      In a Smalltalk system, instrumenting the code mostly means providing a full
      stack dump when there's a walkback, since everything you could likely want
      to know is in the stack, and the stack is capable of being understoond by
      Smalltalk and humans. In a system in a different language, one might have
      to put in more instruments. Good technical judgment is called for.

      If, on the other hand, the cost of putting in the instruments is going to
      be delay of business value, then the customers do need to understand and
      sign off. In practice, on an XP project, the customers and the programmers
      aren't adversaries and things like this sort out readily.

      Usually what happens, he went on, is that some story is on the board for
      implementation. The team brainstorms tasks. One of the tasks is "Add
      Tracing". The customer says "What's that?". Programmer explains. Customer
      says "Oh, OK".

      Ron Jeffries
      Extreme Programming Training and Consultation
      web pages: http://www.XProgramming.com, http://www.armaties.com
      pgp key: http://www.armaties.com/pgpkey.htm
    • Robert C. Martin
      Tom Kreitzberg wrote in message news:387364E4.C0A3E6CC@jhuapl.edu... ... There is no fundamental difference between pre XP Object
      Message 38 of 38 , Jan 5, 2000
        Tom Kreitzberg <Tom.Kreitzberg@...> wrote in message

        > But I think "flexibility" means different things to XP and,
        > shall we say, pre-XP OMA. In XP, doesn't it primarily mean
        > once and only once? In pre-XP OMA, doesn't it primarily mean
        > OCP and low coupling? When I wrote that XP "is structured so
        > that inflexible designs are cheap to change," I meant inflexible
        > in this second sense.

        There is no fundamental difference between pre XP Object Mentor, and
        post XP
        Object Mentor except that we have identified XP as the process we like
        use. Even this is not a big shift for us, since XP is very similar in
        spirit and practice to the unnamed process we have used for years.
        are differences, certainly -- specifically in the areas of pair
        and test first programming; but these are differences in intensity, not
        philosophy. As for the rules governing simplity, the planning game,
        iterations, etc, we were very closely aligned.

        Flexibility means the same to me now as it did five years ago. The
        to add or change significant amounts of functionality while changing a
        minimum of exsiting code -- i.e. the OCP. OnceAndOnlyOnce leads to this
        goal just as the OO design principles do. It is my goal over the next
        several months to integrate the principles and XP.
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