## Re: [XP] Units of time for estimates

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• What is the benefit of having two different point systems (story and iteration points)? Is it worth the added complexity? If you can get your manager to
Message 1 of 41 , Jul 2 7:35 AM
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What is the benefit of having two different point systems (story and
iteration points)? Is it worth the added complexity?

If you can get your manager to understand that velocity is variable,
why can't you simply change the mapping every iteration?

For example, suppose in iteration 1 you did 6 story points, so you
have a velocity of 6. For iteration 2, you predict you will do 6
story points worth of work. You need to account for 30 hours/week,
therefore 60 per iteration... so the ratio is 10 hours per story
point. (Multiply by the number of developers if you need man-hours.)
Now suppose you do 7 points worth in iteration 2, so you have a new
velocity. Well, you still have 60 hours per iteration, so recalculate
- 7 points in 60 hours is just over 8.6 hours per point. Round up to
get a nice number while reducing rather than increasing risk, and call
it 9.

Would your manager understand if you said, "each iteration we will
recalculate the time estimates on everything we haven't done yet,
based on the time it's actually taken us to do the things we have
done"? If so, don't even talk about points with your manager. Use
the points for your own estimates, and use the latest known weather to
translate those into times. Stick 'em in a spreadsheet so you can
just change the ratio and recalc to get the numbers your manager
wants.

Be sure to present it as the estimates getting more accurate, not your
own productivity changing.

Hope this helps,
Matthew
azami@...

--- In extremeprogramming@y..., Torben Wölm <torben.wolm@e...> wrote:
> Management assume that we will be 80% productive. The last 20% is
for
> (non-project related) meetings and the like. We have 37 hour work
weeks, so
> that (roughly) gives the magic number of 30 productive hours each
week.
>
> So when I give an estimate it will have to include project related
meetings
> and administration of the project besides the actual time spent
implementing
> features. This is hard to do, so we don't. We give an estimate in
hours (of
> time needed for implementing features) and assign 25% uncertainty to
the
> estimate.
>
>
> Right now I'm quite confused. I don't know if there's a problem at
all, but
> my manager does not get the point system. She needs a mapping from
the
> points to the hour system. What I've started to do is mapping one
(story)
> point to 1 week (that is 30 hours).
>
>
> I tend to get angry with this. I think the points/velocity method is
so much
> better, because the velocity is based on real measures. We have our
velocity
> and we can give a quite good estimate of how many features we can
implement
> in a given (calendar) period.
>
>
> I think my manager has a problem with it, because there is no clear
mapping.
> The points are abstract, and she probably has a hard time dealing
with this
> abstract system. She feels out of control if she can't tell the
exact hours.
> Part of this probably comes from the initial planning meeting. At
that time
> we just pulled a number out of thin air, stating a velocity of 1
story point
> per programmer per iteration (2 week iterations). That amounts 0.5
iteration
> point per programmer per day (1 story point is 5 iteration points).
She
> almost went throug the roof.
>
> In her calculation we were only 50% productive. And the masterplan
says all
> resources must be 80% productive. After a long discussion she agreed
to try
> with this figure, assuming the velocity would rise after 2 weeks
when the
> first iteration ended. After 2 weeks the real velocity was 0,33...
>
> Maybe all our trouble started here. She wanted to know exactly why
we were
> not faster. Part of it was significant changes in some of the
stories
> (zeroing out some of the effort spent), but the real time consumers
were non
> project related tasks. Old systems needed attention and servers were
> breaking down. And probably the hours spent on these tasks were not
> compatible with the point system. I don't know.
>
> All in all my manager is confused when she looks at our plan. I've
set it up
> in a spreadsheet lined up with 1) Initial plan, 2) Expected points
done, 3)
> Real points done and 4) Current plan.
>
> Columns 2, 3 and 4 are updated after each iteration to reflect the
measured
> activity.
>
> Well, I probably confused you all now. I can see it doesn't seem
clear. I
> just spilled my thoughts and experience, and I will appreciate any
> suggestions for making it clear.
>
> I think I have enough to do with calculating velocity, updating
plans and
> calculate between story and iteration points. When I every 2 weeks
must map
> the numbers to "masterplan-compatible" units, my mind fries.
>
> Again, thanks for the responses so far. I'm trying to compile the
> and see if I can make something out of it, to present to my manager.
>
> Best regards,
> Torben
• bill..just wanted to thank you...i was able to take a look at their website..looks very interesting..i ll have to drop them a line to find out when they will
Message 41 of 41 , Jul 23 1:16 PM
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bill..just wanted to thank you...i was able to take a
look at their website..looks very interesting..i'll
have to drop them a line to find out when they will be
meeting..thanks once again..nicky

--- wecaputo@... wrote:
>
> check out these resources for CHAD (the Chicago
> Agile Developers):
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chicago-agile-dev
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicky Petrila
>
>
> <pirates95@ya To:
> extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
>
> hoo.com> cc:
>
>
> Subject:
> [XP] Are there any XP meetings in Chicago area?
>
> 07/19/2001
>
>
> 01:53 PM
>
>
>
>
> respond to
>
>
> extremeprogra
>
>
> mming
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> hi out there..i was wondering if there are any
> meetings in the chicagoland area in regards to
> XP...pls let me know..nicky
>
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