Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [XP] Units of time for estimates

Expand Messages
  • Janet Graham
    Torben wrote.. ... No, you haven t confused me, you were very clear, I understand your problem and have had a very similar experience. ... Yes, and the time
    Message 1 of 41 , Jul 2 3:35 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Torben wrote..
      >
      >
      > Well, I probably confused you all now. I can see it doesn't
      > seem clear.

      No, you haven't confused me, you were very clear, I understand your problem
      and have had a very similar experience.

      > I think I have enough to do with calculating velocity,
      > updating plans and
      > calculate between story and iteration points.

      Yes, and the time spent converting the schedule to units that your manager
      understands should be spent on the software tasks themselves. It's a very
      frustrating situation.

      Unfortunately, the situation you have can't be resolved without compromise.
      You have to find a way in which they feel like they are more in control
      (even if they are not) and you have minimal reporting to do.

      I can't comment on your manager but maybe my story will help...

      I had a project manager who was not capable, for one reason or another, of
      understanding the way in which we estimated and reported on progress. After
      resorting to shouting at him in an effort to make him understand the process
      (not very constructive I know but I enjoyed it) I did the following...

      - Asked him to explain to me his understanding of how a software project
      should be estimated and what assumptions he used when looking at our
      estimates

      This is where the worms start coming out of the woodwork, almost everything
      he assumed was incorrect and showed a complete lack of understanding of the
      software process. I realised at this point why he had been so insistant
      about certain things. He was attempting to gain control of a process he
      didn't understand by insisting that everything was measured in the units he
      understood. It was a vicious circle, the more confused he got the more
      irrelevant information he was asking for.

      - Then asked him to explain exactly what he needed in order to report on
      progress to his manager

      - Then went to his manager to check that his understanding of what was
      required was correct. (It's worth doing because it's common for managers to
      ask for information that isn't actually necessary and just wastes your
      time.)

      - Then I explained to him how we estimated

      blank face from project manager... to cut a long story short...

      - The result is that I now report progress against a series of agreed
      closures that he understands, which he then uses to report to his manager.
      It does mean he has lost granularity in his visability of the project but my
      arguement is that he doesn't need it. He doesn't need to know how many days
      it takes a particular programmer to write a particular class, that's my job.
      All he needs to know is that this amount of progress has been made in units
      that he understands.

      I guess what I am trying to say is that the problem you have over units for
      time estimates may be masking a more fundamental problem with your manager.

      - Janet
    • Nicky Petrila
      bill..just wanted to thank you...i was able to take a look at their website..looks very interesting..i ll have to drop them a line to find out when they will
      Message 41 of 41 , Jul 23 1:16 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        bill..just wanted to thank you...i was able to take a
        look at their website..looks very interesting..i'll
        have to drop them a line to find out when they will be
        meeting..thanks once again..nicky

        --- wecaputo@... wrote:
        >
        > check out these resources for CHAD (the Chicago
        > Agile Developers):
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chicago-agile-dev
        > http://brain.cs.uiuc.edu/CHAD
        > http://www.objectmentor.com/chad.htm
        >
        > Best,
        > Bill
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Nicky Petrila
        >
        >
        > <pirates95@ya To:
        > extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > hoo.com> cc:
        >
        >
        > Subject:
        > [XP] Are there any XP meetings in Chicago area?
        >
        > 07/19/2001
        >
        >
        > 01:53 PM
        >
        >
        > Please
        >
        >
        > respond to
        >
        >
        > extremeprogra
        >
        >
        > mming
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > hi out there..i was wondering if there are any
        > meetings in the chicagoland area in regards to
        > XP...pls let me know..nicky
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
        > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to:
        > extremeprogramming@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > Don't miss XP UNIVERSE, the first US conference on
        > XP and Agile Methods.
        > see www.xpuniverse.com for details and registration.
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to:
        > extremeprogramming@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > Don't miss XP UNIVERSE, the first US conference on
        > XP and Agile Methods. see www.xpuniverse.com for
        > details and registration.
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >


        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
        http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.