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Re: [XP] Misunderstanding and re-writing the manifesto

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  • Larry Brunelle
    ... When I see such posts, I m reminded of the one-time currency of TQM and Deming methods. These ideas worked fabulously well for Japanese manufacturing
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 7, 2013
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      Steve Berczuk wrote:> On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Kay <tranzpupy@...> wrote:
      >> Since I've been a member of this list since 2002 – I've seen and heard a lot of "lies" and misunderstandings about what XP (and "Agile" IS. I just overheard a webinar where the speaker implied that the manifesto said a'tools and processes were NOT important-- the speaker said "WE (the contracting company) think tools and processes are *VERY* important" AAAGGGGHHHHH! They ALSO said "we Will still be doing requirements, but we will CALL them "user stories" OMG "Agile" is truly dead….
      >> I plan to cry a lot tonight.
      >
      >
      > What always fascinated me about this dynamic is why people feel a need
      > to call what they are doing "agile." Why not instead say " I read
      > something about Agile, I don't want to do that, but maybe I'll borrow
      > some ideas.." Borrowing some ideas won't really work well as the
      > practices interact... but at least it is honest...
      >
      > The other day I was on the T (which is the name we Boston area
      > residents use for "the Subway" :) ) and I over heard 2 people talking
      > about "how 'Steve' [another steve, not me] is getting all agile on
      > us..." and "how agile says <something agile doesn't actually say>" and
      > "how that just /can't/ work for our situation."
      > The confidence with which the person said the last bit is probably
      > the core problem.
      >
      > Steve
      >

      When I see such posts, I'm reminded of the one-time currency
      of TQM and Deming methods. These ideas worked fabulously
      well for Japanese manufacturing concerns, for the simple
      reason they actually paid attention and actually implemented
      the methods "by the book". They believed and followed through.

      American firms, by contrast, rarely paid as close attention,
      and rarely followed throughso faithfully. Indeed, when once
      I signed up for a grad school course in TQM while being
      retreaded at the University of Michigan, I found that the
      instructor taught with an expectation that the structure to
      be found in industry would include something like a "quality
      department" where would perhaps be a head TQM guy to whom
      members of the firm would be responsible for TQM issues.
      This would, it appears to me, be entirely contrary to Deming's
      teaching that the CEO was the head TQM guy, that the change
      had to be believed in at the top and supported from the top.
      (And now Toyota has, what is it? the best selling model in
      the US?)

      "Agile", whichever species, has to be understood, believed in,
      and supported from the top to have the best traction (or even
      any at all) in the organization. What I observe is that it's
      common to believe in something BELIEVED to be "agile", especially
      if there's no requirement for executives to do the homework
      to understand what's meant.

      <Mild rant>
      Corporate America has in many quarters (certainly not all)
      exhibited a belief that "management" is an abstract discipline
      not necessarily requiring actual understanding of the business
      managed. Generally this disease seems to appear in higher-
      level executives who can negotiate one kind or another of
      golden parachute, and may seep down through the ranks. Small-
      business owners generally can't afford this luxury of non-
      understanding: if the business fails, they suffer.

      Of course, sometimes the sailors keep the ship afloat even
      with officers of questionable judgment.
      </Mild rant>
    • marcodorantes
      All these years, learning a lot from communities like this, from authors and practitioners, from my own tries to improve the quality of my software design and
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2013
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        All these years, learning a lot from communities like this, from authors and practitioners, from my own tries to improve the quality of my software design and programming, and telling others about all this good stuff of software development as a cooperative game, and still there are lots of programmers around who simply do not care enough to not just repeat the buzzwords but to behave like if they properly understood the concepts.

         

        All this make me remember what have happened with other intellectual pursuits in history. For example, very few people around me, even with several academic computing degrees, are able to articulate, in simple terms, the most general justified true beliefs from quantum theory, much less its relationship with the current computing industry. Whereas those justified true beliefs were published almost a century ago! 



        ---In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, <brunelle@...> wrote:

        Steve Berczuk wrote:> On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Kay <tranzpupy@...> wrote:
        >> Since I've been a member of this list since 2002 – I've seen and heard a lot of "lies" and misunderstandings about what XP (and "Agile" IS. I just overheard a webinar where the speaker implied that the manifesto said a'tools and processes were NOT important-- the speaker said "WE (the contracting company) think tools and processes are *VERY* important" AAAGGGGHHHHH! They ALSO said "we Will still be doing requirements, but we will CALL them "user stories" OMG "Agile" is truly dead….
        >> I plan to cry a lot tonight.
        >
        >
        > What always fascinated me about this dynamic is why people feel a need
        > to call what they are doing "agile." Why not instead say " I read
        > something about Agile, I don't want to do that, but maybe I'll borrow
        > some ideas.." Borrowing some ideas won't really work well as the
        > practices interact... but at least it is honest...
        >
        > The other day I was on the T (which is the name we Boston area
        > residents use for "the Subway" :) ) and I over heard 2 people talking
        > about "how 'Steve' [another steve, not me] is getting all agile on
        > us..." and "how agile says <something agile doesn't actually say>" and
        > "how that just /can't/ work for our situation."
        > The confidence with which the person said the last bit is probably
        > the core problem.
        >
        > Steve
        >

        When I see such posts, I'm reminded of the one-time currency
        of TQM and Deming methods. These ideas worked fabulously
        well for Japanese manufacturing concerns, for the simple
        reason they actually paid attention and actually implemented
        the methods "by the book". They believed and followed through.

        American firms, by contrast, rarely paid as close attention,
        and rarely followed throughso faithfully. Indeed, when once
        I signed up for a grad school course in TQM while being
        retreaded at the University of Michigan, I found that the
        instructor taught with an expectation that the structure to
        be found in industry would include something like a "quality
        department" where would perhaps be a head TQM guy to whom
        members of the firm would be responsible for TQM issues.
        This would, it appears to me, be entirely contrary to Deming's
        teaching that the CEO was the head TQM guy, that the change
        had to be believed in at the top and supported from the top.
        (And now Toyota has, what is it? the best selling model in
        the US?)

        "Agile", whichever species, has to be understood, believed in,
        and supported from the top to have the best traction (or even
        any at all) in the organization. What I observe is that it's
        common to believe in something BELIEVED to be "agile", especially
        if there's no requirement for executives to do the homework
        to understand what's meant.

        <Mild rant>
        Corporate America has in many quarters (certainly not all)
        exhibited a belief that "management" is an abstract discipline
        not necessarily requiring actual understanding of the business
        managed. Generally this disease seems to appear in higher-
        level executives who can negotiate one kind or another of
        golden parachute, and may seep down through the ranks. Small-
        business owners generally can't afford this luxury of non-
        understanding: if the business fails, they suffer.

        Of course, sometimes the sailors keep the ship afloat even
        with officers of questionable judgment.
        </Mild rant>
      • Phlip
        ... Pivotal Labs, in downtown San Francisco, is a lean mean pair-programming machine, using RoR and RSpec test suites that might actually remain fast &
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2013
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          > I plan to cry a lot tonight.
          >
          > Kay Pentecost

          Pivotal Labs, in downtown San Francisco, is a lean mean
          pair-programming machine, using RoR and RSpec test suites that might
          actually remain fast & efficient. Do they count?
        • Adam Sroka
          I have been a consultant for a long time. There are plenty of good people doing really good things and plenty of people doing mediocre things for a whole lot
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1, 2013
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            I have been a consultant for a long time. There are plenty of good people doing really good things and plenty of people doing mediocre things for a whole lot of reasons, most understandable, many silly. Cry if you need to, but don't take it personally. Find some small way that you can make the world a better place and do a little bit of that every day. 


            On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Phlip <phlip2005@...> wrote:
             

            > I plan to cry a lot tonight.
            >
            > Kay Pentecost

            Pivotal Labs, in downtown San Francisco, is a lean mean
            pair-programming machine, using RoR and RSpec test suites that might
            actually remain fast & efficient. Do they count?


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