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Re: [XP] How not to do Kanban

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  • Larry Brunelle
    I m reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages reading something like Labor $90 hourly If you watch
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 28, 2013
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      I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
      reading something like

      Labor $90 hourly
      If you watch $125
      If you help $175
      If you worked on it first $200

      to which could perhaps be added
      If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300


      Kay wrote:
      > Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
      > (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
      > "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
      > would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team
      > lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
      > "team"
      >
      > And you wonder why I'M crying?
      >
      > (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
      >
      > kay P.
    • Francis Fish
      Hi Kay Change the organisation or ... change organisation. I did once work in a place where they created (no lie) Professor of Word Processing so they could
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 29, 2013
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        Hi Kay

        Change the organisation or ... change organisation. I did once work in a
        place where they created (no lie) "Professor of Word Processing" so they
        could shunt an incompetent with tenure out of the way. Is this team lead
        also the gatekeeper to more senior management? Can you do anything about
        this?

        btw - I love Larry's post too.


        On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle <brunelle@...> wrote:

        > I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
        > reading something like
        >
        > Labor $90 hourly
        > If you watch $125
        > If you help $175
        > If you worked on it first $200
        >
        > to which could perhaps be added
        > If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
        >
        >
        > Kay wrote:
        > > Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
        > > (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
        > > "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
        > > would be 'easier to maintain" � so one day, by herself, the "team
        > > lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
        > > "team"
        > >
        > > And you wonder why I'M crying?
        > >
        > > (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
        > >
        > > kay P.
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        Thanks and Regards,

        Francis

        07764 225 942

        "So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they *are*.
        The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are operating
        with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are
        allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and
        then you can improve. But it's the *system* you improve, not the people you
        beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the
        mist<https://leanpub.com/unicorns>

        CV http://www.pharmarketeer.com/francis.html

        FJFDIDM Consultancy <http://fjfdidm.com/>


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kay
        hey, Francis Fish, ... Is this team lead ... Near as I can tell, the team leads only dole out tasks and have no upward mobility. Can you do anything
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 29, 2013
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          hey, Francis Fish,

          --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Francis Fish <francis@...> wrote:
          >
          <snip> Is this team lead
          > also the gatekeeper to more senior management?
          Near as I can tell, the "team leads" only dole out "tasks" and have no upward mobility.


          Can you do anything about
          > this?

          well, I'm protecting my own sanity by leaving. NO one here I want to emulate... and nothing to learn here that I trust is accurate. (Right justifying SQL scripts, booo!)
          >
          > btw - I love Larry's post too.
          me too.

          kay
          >
          >
          > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle <brunelle@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
          > > reading something like
          > >
          > > Labor $90 hourly
          > > If you watch $125
          > > If you help $175
          > > If you worked on it first $200
          > >
          > > to which could perhaps be added
          > > If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
          > >
          > >
          > > Kay wrote:
          > > > Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
          > > > (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
          > > > "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
          > > > would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team
          > > > lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
          > > > "team"
          > > >
          > > > And you wonder why I'M crying?
          > > >
          > > > (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
          > > >
          > > > kay P.
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
          > >
          > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
          > >
          > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Thanks and Regards,
          >
          > Francis
          >
          > 07764 225 942
          >
          > "So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they *are*.
          > The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are operating
          > with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are
          > allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and
          > then you can improve. But it's the *system* you improve, not the people you
          > beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the
          > mist<https://leanpub.com/unicorns>
          >
          > CV http://www.pharmarketeer.com/francis.html
          >
          > FJFDIDM Consultancy <http://fjfdidm.com/>
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Charlie Poole
          Hi Kay, Hey, I never thought about this before, but Change your organization or... change your organization is a bit like the Law of Two Feet in Open Space.
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 29, 2013
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            Hi Kay,

            Hey, I never thought about this before, but "Change your organization or...
            change your organization" is a bit like the Law of Two Feet in Open Space.
            You reminded me of my favorite formulation of it:

            "If you find you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet,
            go someplace else."

            Charlie


            On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Kay <tranzpupy@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > hey, Francis Fish,
            >
            > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Francis Fish <francis@...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > <snip> Is this team lead
            > > also the gatekeeper to more senior management?
            > Near as I can tell, the "team leads" only dole out "tasks" and have no
            > upward mobility.
            >
            > Can you do anything about
            > > this?
            >
            > well, I'm protecting my own sanity by leaving. NO one here I want to
            > emulate... and nothing to learn here that I trust is accurate. (Right
            > justifying SQL scripts, booo!)
            > >
            > > btw - I love Larry's post too.
            > me too.
            >
            > kay
            > >
            > >
            > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle <brunelle@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
            > > > reading something like
            > > >
            > > > Labor $90 hourly
            > > > If you watch $125
            > > > If you help $175
            > > > If you worked on it first $200
            > > >
            > > > to which could perhaps be added
            > > > If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Kay wrote:
            > > > > Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
            > > > > (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
            > > > > "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
            > > > > would be 'easier to maintain" � so one day, by herself, the "team
            > > > > lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
            > > > > "team"
            > > > >
            > > > > And you wonder why I'M crying?
            > > > >
            > > > > (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
            > > > >
            > > > > kay P.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
            > > >
            > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            > > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
            > > >
            > > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > Thanks and Regards,
            > >
            > > Francis
            > >
            > > 07764 225 942
            > >
            > > "So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they
            > *are*.
            > > The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are
            > operating
            > > with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are
            > > allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and
            > > then you can improve. But it's the *system* you improve, not the people
            > you
            > > beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the
            > > mist<https://leanpub.com/unicorns>
            > >
            > > CV http://www.pharmarketeer.com/francis.html
            > >
            > > FJFDIDM Consultancy <http://fjfdidm.com/>
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nancy Van Schooenderwoert
            Hi Kay, Good for you if you really do decide to leave. I keep on meeting people who find themselves in dead-end situations like you describe, and as they come
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 29, 2013
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              Hi Kay,

              Good for you if you really do decide to leave. I keep on meeting
              people who find themselves in dead-end situations like you describe, and
              as they come to understand that they are VERY ready to move faster,
              further - well, they end up finding a better place to work. I hope you
              have better opportunities available to you!

              Francis' post reminded me of the many times I've worked someplace
              where they went into strange contortions to keep an incompetent person
              who had some sort of magical influence. I wish these people could see
              how much this destroys motivation for everyone who sees what's going on.

              Good lick, Kay. Let us know how you make out.

              - Nancy V.


              On 8/29/13 11:34 AM, Francis Fish wrote:
              > Hi Kay
              >
              > Change the organisation or ... change organisation. I did once work in a
              > place where they created (no lie) "Professor of Word Processing" so they
              > could shunt an incompetent with tenure out of the way. Is this team lead
              > also the gatekeeper to more senior management? Can you do anything about
              > this?
              >
              > btw - I love Larry's post too.
              >
              >
              > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle<brunelle@...> wrote:
              >
              >> I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
              >> reading something like
              >>
              >> Labor $90 hourly
              >> If you watch $125
              >> If you help $175
              >> If you worked on it first $200
              >>
              >> to which could perhaps be added
              >> If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
              >>
              >>
              >> Kay wrote:
              >>> Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
              >>> (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
              >>> "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
              >>> would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team
              >>> lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
              >>> "team"
              >>>
              >>> And you wonder why I'M crying?
              >>>
              >>> (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
              >>>
              >>> kay P.
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
              >>
              >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              >> extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
              >>
              >> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >

              --
              ............................................
              Agile hardware? Yes! Agile safety-critical Embedded Systems too

              Nancy Van Schooenderwoert, Lean-Agile Partners Inc.

              US mobile: 781 301 1822 nancyv@...
              Twitter: @vanschoo http://www.leanagilepartners.com
              ............................................
            • Kay
              hi, Nancy, I *am* leaving -- in fact, today s my last day! I LL be volunteering at Agile DC in October. Going to practice TDD and brush up my Java and
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 30, 2013
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                hi, Nancy,

                I *am* leaving -- in fact, today's my last day!

                I"LL be volunteering at Agile DC in October. Going to practice TDD and brush up my Java and C#...
                Found Francis' Fish's "It's not your Fault"video on you tube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWYxPoI3vZg&feature=youtu.be n) --- Very thought-provoking!!

                So If anyone's looking for an enthusiastic .Net programmer with strong technical writing skills in DC, Arlington, or OLd Towne Alexandria, you know where to find me!!

                Kay Pentecost


                --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Van Schooenderwoert <vanschoo@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Kay,
                >
                > Good for you if you really do decide to leave. I keep on meeting
                > people who find themselves in dead-end situations like you describe, and
                > as they come to understand that they are VERY ready to move faster,
                > further - well, they end up finding a better place to work. I hope you
                > have better opportunities available to you!
                >
                > Francis' post reminded me of the many times I've worked someplace
                > where they went into strange contortions to keep an incompetent person
                > who had some sort of magical influence. I wish these people could see
                > how much this destroys motivation for everyone who sees what's going on.
                >
                > Good lick, Kay. Let us know how you make out.
                >
                > - Nancy V.
                >
                >
                > On 8/29/13 11:34 AM, Francis Fish wrote:
                > > Hi Kay
                > >
                > > Change the organisation or ... change organisation. I did once work in a
                > > place where they created (no lie) "Professor of Word Processing" so they
                > > could shunt an incompetent with tenure out of the way. Is this team lead
                > > also the gatekeeper to more senior management? Can you do anything about
                > > this?
                > >
                > > btw - I love Larry's post too.
                > >
                > >
                > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle<brunelle@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >> I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
                > >> reading something like
                > >>
                > >> Labor $90 hourly
                > >> If you watch $125
                > >> If you help $175
                > >> If you worked on it first $200
                > >>
                > >> to which could perhaps be added
                > >> If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Kay wrote:
                > >>> Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
                > >>> (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
                > >>> "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
                > >>> would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team
                > >>> lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
                > >>> "team"
                > >>>
                > >>> And you wonder why I'M crying?
                > >>>
                > >>> (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
                > >>>
                > >>> kay P.
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> ------------------------------------
                > >>
                > >> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                > >>
                > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > >> extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                > >>
                > >> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                > ............................................
                > Agile hardware? Yes! Agile safety-critical Embedded Systems too
                >
                > Nancy Van Schooenderwoert, Lean-Agile Partners Inc.
                >
                > US mobile: 781 301 1822 nancyv@...
                > Twitter: @vanschoo http://www.leanagilepartners.com
                > ............................................
                >
              • Francis Fish
                ... Thanks! I hope it helped. -- Thanks and Regards, Francis 07764 225 942 So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it s because they *are*. The only
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 30, 2013
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                  On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Kay <tranzpupy@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  > Found Francis' Fish's "It's not your Fault"video on you tube (
                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWYxPoI3vZg&feature=youtu.be n) --- Very
                  > thought-provoking!!
                  >
                  Thanks! I hope it helped.

                  --
                  Thanks and Regards,

                  Francis

                  07764 225 942

                  "So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they *are*.
                  The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are operating
                  with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are
                  allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and
                  then you can improve. But it's the *system* you improve, not the people you
                  beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the
                  mist<https://leanpub.com/unicorns>

                  CV http://www.pharmarketeer.com/francis.html

                  FJFDIDM Consultancy <http://fjfdidm.com/>


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kay
                  Hi Charlie, Great advice!! and exactly what I m doing. Thanks!! Kay P
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 30, 2013
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                    Hi Charlie,

                    Great advice!! and exactly what I'm doing.

                    Thanks!!

                    Kay P

                    --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Poole <charliepoole@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Kay,
                    >
                    > Hey, I never thought about this before, but "Change your organization or...
                    > change your organization" is a bit like the Law of Two Feet in Open Space.
                    > You reminded me of my favorite formulation of it:
                    >
                    > "If you find you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet,
                    > go someplace else."
                    >
                    > Charlie
                    >
                    >
                    > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Kay <tranzpupy@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > hey, Francis Fish,
                    > >
                    > > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Francis Fish <francis@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > <snip> Is this team lead
                    > > > also the gatekeeper to more senior management?
                    > > Near as I can tell, the "team leads" only dole out "tasks" and have no
                    > > upward mobility.
                    > >
                    > > Can you do anything about
                    > > > this?
                    > >
                    > > well, I'm protecting my own sanity by leaving. NO one here I want to
                    > > emulate... and nothing to learn here that I trust is accurate. (Right
                    > > justifying SQL scripts, booo!)
                    > > >
                    > > > btw - I love Larry's post too.
                    > > me too.
                    > >
                    > > kay
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle <brunelle@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > > I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
                    > > > > reading something like
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Labor $90 hourly
                    > > > > If you watch $125
                    > > > > If you help $175
                    > > > > If you worked on it first $200
                    > > > >
                    > > > > to which could perhaps be added
                    > > > > If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Kay wrote:
                    > > > > > Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
                    > > > > > (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
                    > > > > > "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
                    > > > > > would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team
                    > > > > > lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
                    > > > > > "team"
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > And you wonder why I'M crying?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > kay P.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > > >
                    > > > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@
                    > > > >
                    > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                    > > > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > > Thanks and Regards,
                    > > >
                    > > > Francis
                    > > >
                    > > > 07764 225 942
                    > > >
                    > > > "So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they
                    > > *are*.
                    > > > The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are
                    > > operating
                    > > > with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are
                    > > > allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and
                    > > > then you can improve. But it's the *system* you improve, not the people
                    > > you
                    > > > beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the
                    > > > mist<https://leanpub.com/unicorns>
                    > > >
                    > > > CV http://www.pharmarketeer.com/francis.html
                    > > >
                    > > > FJFDIDM Consultancy <http://fjfdidm.com/>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • madbadrabbit
                    ... > Hey, I never thought about this before, but "Change your organization or... > change your organization" is a bit like the Law of Two Feet
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 3, 2013
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                      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      > Hey, I never thought about this before, but "Change your organization or...
                      > change your organization" is a bit like the Law of Two Feet in Open Space.

                      Agile adoption would quickly pass 95%, if everyone could walk into a new workplace as easily as an Open Space session.
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