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How not to do Kanban

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  • Kay
    Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the team lead (whose sole job is tasking the employees and who had me right-justify columns in a sql
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 28, 2013
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      Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead" (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog .
      No imput from the "team"

      And you wonder why I'M crying?

      (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)

      kay P.
    • Larry Brunelle
      I m reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages reading something like Labor $90 hourly If you watch
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 28, 2013
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        I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
        reading something like

        Labor $90 hourly
        If you watch $125
        If you help $175
        If you worked on it first $200

        to which could perhaps be added
        If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300


        Kay wrote:
        > Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
        > (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
        > "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
        > would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team
        > lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
        > "team"
        >
        > And you wonder why I'M crying?
        >
        > (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
        >
        > kay P.
      • Francis Fish
        Hi Kay Change the organisation or ... change organisation. I did once work in a place where they created (no lie) Professor of Word Processing so they could
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 29, 2013
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          Hi Kay

          Change the organisation or ... change organisation. I did once work in a
          place where they created (no lie) "Professor of Word Processing" so they
          could shunt an incompetent with tenure out of the way. Is this team lead
          also the gatekeeper to more senior management? Can you do anything about
          this?

          btw - I love Larry's post too.


          On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle <brunelle@...> wrote:

          > I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
          > reading something like
          >
          > Labor $90 hourly
          > If you watch $125
          > If you help $175
          > If you worked on it first $200
          >
          > to which could perhaps be added
          > If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
          >
          >
          > Kay wrote:
          > > Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
          > > (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
          > > "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
          > > would be 'easier to maintain" � so one day, by herself, the "team
          > > lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
          > > "team"
          > >
          > > And you wonder why I'M crying?
          > >
          > > (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
          > >
          > > kay P.
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
          >
          > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          Thanks and Regards,

          Francis

          07764 225 942

          "So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they *are*.
          The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are operating
          with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are
          allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and
          then you can improve. But it's the *system* you improve, not the people you
          beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the
          mist<https://leanpub.com/unicorns>

          CV http://www.pharmarketeer.com/francis.html

          FJFDIDM Consultancy <http://fjfdidm.com/>


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kay
          hey, Francis Fish, ... Is this team lead ... Near as I can tell, the team leads only dole out tasks and have no upward mobility. Can you do anything
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 29, 2013
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            hey, Francis Fish,

            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Francis Fish <francis@...> wrote:
            >
            <snip> Is this team lead
            > also the gatekeeper to more senior management?
            Near as I can tell, the "team leads" only dole out "tasks" and have no upward mobility.


            Can you do anything about
            > this?

            well, I'm protecting my own sanity by leaving. NO one here I want to emulate... and nothing to learn here that I trust is accurate. (Right justifying SQL scripts, booo!)
            >
            > btw - I love Larry's post too.
            me too.

            kay
            >
            >
            > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle <brunelle@...> wrote:
            >
            > > I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
            > > reading something like
            > >
            > > Labor $90 hourly
            > > If you watch $125
            > > If you help $175
            > > If you worked on it first $200
            > >
            > > to which could perhaps be added
            > > If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
            > >
            > >
            > > Kay wrote:
            > > > Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
            > > > (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
            > > > "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
            > > > would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team
            > > > lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
            > > > "team"
            > > >
            > > > And you wonder why I'M crying?
            > > >
            > > > (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
            > > >
            > > > kay P.
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
            > >
            > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
            > >
            > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Thanks and Regards,
            >
            > Francis
            >
            > 07764 225 942
            >
            > "So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they *are*.
            > The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are operating
            > with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are
            > allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and
            > then you can improve. But it's the *system* you improve, not the people you
            > beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the
            > mist<https://leanpub.com/unicorns>
            >
            > CV http://www.pharmarketeer.com/francis.html
            >
            > FJFDIDM Consultancy <http://fjfdidm.com/>
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Charlie Poole
            Hi Kay, Hey, I never thought about this before, but Change your organization or... change your organization is a bit like the Law of Two Feet in Open Space.
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 29, 2013
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              Hi Kay,

              Hey, I never thought about this before, but "Change your organization or...
              change your organization" is a bit like the Law of Two Feet in Open Space.
              You reminded me of my favorite formulation of it:

              "If you find you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet,
              go someplace else."

              Charlie


              On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Kay <tranzpupy@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > hey, Francis Fish,
              >
              > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Francis Fish <francis@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > <snip> Is this team lead
              > > also the gatekeeper to more senior management?
              > Near as I can tell, the "team leads" only dole out "tasks" and have no
              > upward mobility.
              >
              > Can you do anything about
              > > this?
              >
              > well, I'm protecting my own sanity by leaving. NO one here I want to
              > emulate... and nothing to learn here that I trust is accurate. (Right
              > justifying SQL scripts, booo!)
              > >
              > > btw - I love Larry's post too.
              > me too.
              >
              > kay
              > >
              > >
              > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle <brunelle@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
              > > > reading something like
              > > >
              > > > Labor $90 hourly
              > > > If you watch $125
              > > > If you help $175
              > > > If you worked on it first $200
              > > >
              > > > to which could perhaps be added
              > > > If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Kay wrote:
              > > > > Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
              > > > > (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
              > > > > "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
              > > > > would be 'easier to maintain" � so one day, by herself, the "team
              > > > > lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
              > > > > "team"
              > > > >
              > > > > And you wonder why I'M crying?
              > > > >
              > > > > (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
              > > > >
              > > > > kay P.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
              > > >
              > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
              > > >
              > > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > Thanks and Regards,
              > >
              > > Francis
              > >
              > > 07764 225 942
              > >
              > > "So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they
              > *are*.
              > > The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are
              > operating
              > > with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are
              > > allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and
              > > then you can improve. But it's the *system* you improve, not the people
              > you
              > > beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the
              > > mist<https://leanpub.com/unicorns>
              > >
              > > CV http://www.pharmarketeer.com/francis.html
              > >
              > > FJFDIDM Consultancy <http://fjfdidm.com/>
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nancy Van Schooenderwoert
              Hi Kay, Good for you if you really do decide to leave. I keep on meeting people who find themselves in dead-end situations like you describe, and as they come
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 29, 2013
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                Hi Kay,

                Good for you if you really do decide to leave. I keep on meeting
                people who find themselves in dead-end situations like you describe, and
                as they come to understand that they are VERY ready to move faster,
                further - well, they end up finding a better place to work. I hope you
                have better opportunities available to you!

                Francis' post reminded me of the many times I've worked someplace
                where they went into strange contortions to keep an incompetent person
                who had some sort of magical influence. I wish these people could see
                how much this destroys motivation for everyone who sees what's going on.

                Good lick, Kay. Let us know how you make out.

                - Nancy V.


                On 8/29/13 11:34 AM, Francis Fish wrote:
                > Hi Kay
                >
                > Change the organisation or ... change organisation. I did once work in a
                > place where they created (no lie) "Professor of Word Processing" so they
                > could shunt an incompetent with tenure out of the way. Is this team lead
                > also the gatekeeper to more senior management? Can you do anything about
                > this?
                >
                > btw - I love Larry's post too.
                >
                >
                > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle<brunelle@...> wrote:
                >
                >> I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
                >> reading something like
                >>
                >> Labor $90 hourly
                >> If you watch $125
                >> If you help $175
                >> If you worked on it first $200
                >>
                >> to which could perhaps be added
                >> If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
                >>
                >>
                >> Kay wrote:
                >>> Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
                >>> (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
                >>> "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
                >>> would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team
                >>> lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
                >>> "team"
                >>>
                >>> And you wonder why I'M crying?
                >>>
                >>> (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
                >>>
                >>> kay P.
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------------------
                >>
                >> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                >>
                >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                >> extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                >>
                >> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >

                --
                ............................................
                Agile hardware? Yes! Agile safety-critical Embedded Systems too

                Nancy Van Schooenderwoert, Lean-Agile Partners Inc.

                US mobile: 781 301 1822 nancyv@...
                Twitter: @vanschoo http://www.leanagilepartners.com
                ............................................
              • Kay
                hi, Nancy, I *am* leaving -- in fact, today s my last day! I LL be volunteering at Agile DC in October. Going to practice TDD and brush up my Java and
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 30, 2013
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                  hi, Nancy,

                  I *am* leaving -- in fact, today's my last day!

                  I"LL be volunteering at Agile DC in October. Going to practice TDD and brush up my Java and C#...
                  Found Francis' Fish's "It's not your Fault"video on you tube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWYxPoI3vZg&feature=youtu.be n) --- Very thought-provoking!!

                  So If anyone's looking for an enthusiastic .Net programmer with strong technical writing skills in DC, Arlington, or OLd Towne Alexandria, you know where to find me!!

                  Kay Pentecost


                  --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Van Schooenderwoert <vanschoo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Kay,
                  >
                  > Good for you if you really do decide to leave. I keep on meeting
                  > people who find themselves in dead-end situations like you describe, and
                  > as they come to understand that they are VERY ready to move faster,
                  > further - well, they end up finding a better place to work. I hope you
                  > have better opportunities available to you!
                  >
                  > Francis' post reminded me of the many times I've worked someplace
                  > where they went into strange contortions to keep an incompetent person
                  > who had some sort of magical influence. I wish these people could see
                  > how much this destroys motivation for everyone who sees what's going on.
                  >
                  > Good lick, Kay. Let us know how you make out.
                  >
                  > - Nancy V.
                  >
                  >
                  > On 8/29/13 11:34 AM, Francis Fish wrote:
                  > > Hi Kay
                  > >
                  > > Change the organisation or ... change organisation. I did once work in a
                  > > place where they created (no lie) "Professor of Word Processing" so they
                  > > could shunt an incompetent with tenure out of the way. Is this team lead
                  > > also the gatekeeper to more senior management? Can you do anything about
                  > > this?
                  > >
                  > > btw - I love Larry's post too.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle<brunelle@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
                  > >> reading something like
                  > >>
                  > >> Labor $90 hourly
                  > >> If you watch $125
                  > >> If you help $175
                  > >> If you worked on it first $200
                  > >>
                  > >> to which could perhaps be added
                  > >> If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Kay wrote:
                  > >>> Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
                  > >>> (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
                  > >>> "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
                  > >>> would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team
                  > >>> lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
                  > >>> "team"
                  > >>>
                  > >>> And you wonder why I'M crying?
                  > >>>
                  > >>> (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
                  > >>>
                  > >>> kay P.
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> ------------------------------------
                  > >>
                  > >> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                  > >>
                  > >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  > >> extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                  > >>
                  > >> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > ............................................
                  > Agile hardware? Yes! Agile safety-critical Embedded Systems too
                  >
                  > Nancy Van Schooenderwoert, Lean-Agile Partners Inc.
                  >
                  > US mobile: 781 301 1822 nancyv@...
                  > Twitter: @vanschoo http://www.leanagilepartners.com
                  > ............................................
                  >
                • Francis Fish
                  ... Thanks! I hope it helped. -- Thanks and Regards, Francis 07764 225 942 So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it s because they *are*. The only
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 30, 2013
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                    On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Kay <tranzpupy@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    > Found Francis' Fish's "It's not your Fault"video on you tube (
                    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWYxPoI3vZg&feature=youtu.be n) --- Very
                    > thought-provoking!!
                    >
                    Thanks! I hope it helped.

                    --
                    Thanks and Regards,

                    Francis

                    07764 225 942

                    "So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they *are*.
                    The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are operating
                    with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are
                    allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and
                    then you can improve. But it's the *system* you improve, not the people you
                    beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the
                    mist<https://leanpub.com/unicorns>

                    CV http://www.pharmarketeer.com/francis.html

                    FJFDIDM Consultancy <http://fjfdidm.com/>


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kay
                    Hi Charlie, Great advice!! and exactly what I m doing. Thanks!! Kay P
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 30, 2013
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                      Hi Charlie,

                      Great advice!! and exactly what I'm doing.

                      Thanks!!

                      Kay P

                      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Poole <charliepoole@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Kay,
                      >
                      > Hey, I never thought about this before, but "Change your organization or...
                      > change your organization" is a bit like the Law of Two Feet in Open Space.
                      > You reminded me of my favorite formulation of it:
                      >
                      > "If you find you are neither learning nor contributing, use your two feet,
                      > go someplace else."
                      >
                      > Charlie
                      >
                      >
                      > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Kay <tranzpupy@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > hey, Francis Fish,
                      > >
                      > > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Francis Fish <francis@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > <snip> Is this team lead
                      > > > also the gatekeeper to more senior management?
                      > > Near as I can tell, the "team leads" only dole out "tasks" and have no
                      > > upward mobility.
                      > >
                      > > Can you do anything about
                      > > > this?
                      > >
                      > > well, I'm protecting my own sanity by leaving. NO one here I want to
                      > > emulate... and nothing to learn here that I trust is accurate. (Right
                      > > justifying SQL scripts, booo!)
                      > > >
                      > > > btw - I love Larry's post too.
                      > > me too.
                      > >
                      > > kay
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Larry Brunelle <brunelle@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > I'm reminded of the signs we sometimes see in garages
                      > > > > reading something like
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Labor $90 hourly
                      > > > > If you watch $125
                      > > > > If you help $175
                      > > > > If you worked on it first $200
                      > > > >
                      > > > > to which could perhaps be added
                      > > > > If you stand there and tell me how to do it $300
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Kay wrote:
                      > > > > > Okay, they told us to do Kanban. So, one day, the "team lead"
                      > > > > > (whose sole job is "tasking" the employees and who had me
                      > > > > > "right-justify"columns in a sql insert script (a text file) so it
                      > > > > > would be 'easier to maintain" – so one day, by herself, the "team
                      > > > > > lead" created a Kanban board with the backlog . No imput from the
                      > > > > > "team"
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > And you wonder why I'M crying?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > (I've had my own Kanban board (for my own "tasks" up for a year.)
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > kay P.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > > >
                      > > > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@
                      > > > >
                      > > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > > > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > Thanks and Regards,
                      > > >
                      > > > Francis
                      > > >
                      > > > 07764 225 942
                      > > >
                      > > > "So when targets seem stupid, arbitrary and unfair it's because they
                      > > *are*.
                      > > > The only way to improve is to look at the whole system people are
                      > > operating
                      > > > with, the basic tools, their training, how much initiative they are
                      > > > allowed, are you measuring the right things (more about that later) and
                      > > > then you can improve. But it's the *system* you improve, not the people
                      > > you
                      > > > beat into performing even worse." Unicorns in the
                      > > > mist<https://leanpub.com/unicorns>
                      > > >
                      > > > CV http://www.pharmarketeer.com/francis.html
                      > > >
                      > > > FJFDIDM Consultancy <http://fjfdidm.com/>
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • madbadrabbit
                      ... > Hey, I never thought about this before, but "Change your organization or... > change your organization" is a bit like the Law of Two Feet
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 3, 2013
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                        --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        > Hey, I never thought about this before, but "Change your organization or...
                        > change your organization" is a bit like the Law of Two Feet in Open Space.

                        Agile adoption would quickly pass 95%, if everyone could walk into a new workplace as easily as an Open Space session.
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.