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plugging in RST/exploratory testing

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  • kucerarichard
    Hello XPers, Would it be possible to substitute the Rapid Software Testing/Exploratory Testing of Caner/Bach to cover the automated testing/TDD part of xP?
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 3, 2013
      Hello XPers,

      Would it be possible to substitute the Rapid Software Testing/Exploratory Testing of Caner/Bach to cover the automated testing/TDD part of xP?

      This would be for a corporate web development environment where writing suites of automated tests TDD would seem to cost a lot of effort, and not really be appropriate use of time because it would come near to covering everything. If we had regular sessions of RST it would seem to support the rest of the xP practices the way the automated test writing does, the rest of xP is probably pretty doable or added to scrum.

      We currently do scrum and it seems to me a lot of problems we see are due to inadequate test coverage or lack of testing while developing.

      Best Regards,
      Rich
    • Adam Sroka
      The short answer is no. Exploratory testing is a valuable technique that all teams should strongly consider doing if they aren t already. However, it is no
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 4, 2013
        The short answer is no. Exploratory testing is a valuable technique that
        all teams should strongly consider doing if they aren't already. However,
        it is no substitute for the low level automated testing that we do in TDD.

        TDD tests have at least four important qualities that exploratory tests do
        not: They are fast, we can run a very large number of them in a short
        period of time (often sub-second on modern hardware.) They are isolated,
        they test one behavior at a time without the need to worry about the
        complexities of other components. The are repeatable, they do the same
        thing every time we run them and the results require little or no
        interpretation. They are examples of how the code is used that document our
        APIs and our intent.

        Exploratory tests also have qualities that TDD tests don't have. They are
        more playful and give a bigger picture sense of what the system is doing.
        They allow us to think more about the way that an actual user of the system
        might use (or misuse) the system. They are not directly tied to one
        particular story and thus allow us to explore the gaps between the stories.

        Neither technique is a substitute for the other and a test infected team
        should be doing both every day.





        On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM, kucerarichard <kucerarichard@...>wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Hello XPers,
        >
        > Would it be possible to substitute the Rapid Software Testing/Exploratory
        > Testing of Caner/Bach to cover the automated testing/TDD part of xP?
        >
        > This would be for a corporate web development environment where writing
        > suites of automated tests TDD would seem to cost a lot of effort, and not
        > really be appropriate use of time because it would come near to covering
        > everything. If we had regular sessions of RST it would seem to support the
        > rest of the xP practices the way the automated test writing does, the rest
        > of xP is probably pretty doable or added to scrum.
        >
        > We currently do scrum and it seems to me a lot of problems we see are due
        > to inadequate test coverage or lack of testing while developing.
        >
        > Best Regards,
        > Rich
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Josue Barbosa dos Santos
        ... +1. I remembered that I read some analogy about it. Here it is: Trying to implement Scrum without automation is like trying to drive a sports car on a
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 5, 2013
          On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...> wrote:

          > The short answer is no.

          +1.

          I remembered that I read some analogy about it. Here it is:

          "Trying to implement Scrum without automation is like trying to drive a
          sports
          car on a beaten-up dirt track�you won�t experience the full potential of
          your exciting vehicle,
          you will get horribly frustrated, and no doubt you will end up damaging
          and probably blaming the car."

          From here:

          http://www.axisagile.com/sample-chapters/sample-chapter06-questioning-quality-scrum-shortcuts-without-cutting-corners-ilan-goldstein.pdf


          --
          Abra�os,
          Josu�
          http://twitter.com/josuesantos



          On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...> wrote:

          > The short answer is no. Exploratory testing is a valuable technique that
          > all teams should strongly consider doing if they aren't already. However,
          > it is no substitute for the low level automated testing that we do in TDD.
          >
          > TDD tests have at least four important qualities that exploratory tests do
          > not: They are fast, we can run a very large number of them in a short
          > period of time (often sub-second on modern hardware.) They are isolated,
          > they test one behavior at a time without the need to worry about the
          > complexities of other components. The are repeatable, they do the same
          > thing every time we run them and the results require little or no
          > interpretation. They are examples of how the code is used that document our
          > APIs and our intent.
          >
          > Exploratory tests also have qualities that TDD tests don't have. They are
          > more playful and give a bigger picture sense of what the system is doing.
          > They allow us to think more about the way that an actual user of the system
          > might use (or misuse) the system. They are not directly tied to one
          > particular story and thus allow us to explore the gaps between the stories.
          >
          > Neither technique is a substitute for the other and a test infected team
          > should be doing both every day.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM, kucerarichard <kucerarichard@...
          > >wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Hello XPers,
          > >
          > > Would it be possible to substitute the Rapid Software Testing/Exploratory
          > > Testing of Caner/Bach to cover the automated testing/TDD part of xP?
          > >
          > > This would be for a corporate web development environment where writing
          > > suites of automated tests TDD would seem to cost a lot of effort, and not
          > > really be appropriate use of time because it would come near to covering
          > > everything. If we had regular sessions of RST it would seem to support
          > the
          > > rest of the xP practices the way the automated test writing does, the
          > rest
          > > of xP is probably pretty doable or added to scrum.
          > >
          > > We currently do scrum and it seems to me a lot of problems we see are due
          > > to inadequate test coverage or lack of testing while developing.
          > >
          > > Best Regards,
          > > Rich
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
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