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Re: [XP] Rise & Fall of Design Patterns:Lessons to learn?

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  • Sean Corfield
    ... Indeed. If you work primarily in FP languages, rather than OOP languages, several of those patterns are either built into the language or are simply
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 24 9:48 AM
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      On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...> wrote:
      > The original GoF patterns are useful to learn, even though many of them are
      > solving limitations in the language rather than actual problems in the
      > domain of your product.

      Indeed. If you work primarily in FP languages, rather than OOP
      languages, several of those "patterns" are either built into the
      language or are simply irrelevant. A few of them apply as-is, some
      apply in a different form.

      I remember when the GoF book came out and it was quite revolutionary
      at the time ('94, as I recall?) - the OOP world was evolving very
      rapidly back then (late 80's thru mid-90's) and there were a lot of
      exciting things happening, interesting conferences and technical
      papers, ground-breaking books, etc. In the decades since, that's all
      become just part of the accepted canon of OOP wisdom and we talk about
      it a lot less.

      As we see the resurgence of FP, it will be interesting to see if we
      get a similar spike of excitement and new material. I suspect we won't
      because FP has been around for so long in the background, although we
      are seeing interesting conferences focusing on FP (The Strange Loop is
      fairly heavily FP-focused, Lambda Jam recently was a great FP-focused
      cross-language event). We have a whole generation of OOP developers
      who will have to unlearn a lot of "bad habits" and learn a whole new
      way of thinking - ironically the previous generation take to FP more
      easily, in my experience, because they knew other styles of
      programming before OOP!

      After the initial fuss around Design Patterns died down, the Patterns
      community moved on to codify and categorize patterns in process in a
      (mostly) technology-neutral way and that seems to be an area that
      never got as much interest from the broader software development
      community as it deserved. Nice to see some mention of that aspect of
      patterns in this thread.
      --
      Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
      An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
      World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

      "Perfection is the enemy of the good."
      -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)
    • Agustin Villena
      Thank you all for the great feedback Many answered questioning if Design Patterns has really fallen (a fair point), but that was not my point. My real
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 24 11:53 AM
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        Thank you all for the great feedback

        Many answered questioning if Design Patterns has really fallen (a fair
        point), but that was not my point.

        My real question is:

        If we want to use Patterns to document and communicate Agile Practices,
        which pitfalls of the early Design Patterns movement we should avoid? (for
        the goal of being really relevant for agile practitioners)

        Saludos
        Agustín
        El jul 21, 2013 9:50 PM, "Agustin Villena" <agustin.villena@...>
        escribió:

        > Hi all!
        >
        > Design Patterns was one of the great sources of XP in its origins, and
        > therefore of the agile movement, and I still found that creating Design
        > Patterns is a very good form of organizing knowledge, and I´m looking for
        > an approach to document agile practices as method patterns,
        >
        > My questions are.
        > - Which are the great lessons from the Rise & fall of the Design patterns
        > movement?
        >
        > Thanks
        > Agustin Villena
        > @agustinvillena
        >
        > PD: I´m aware that DP is not really dead, and, following the technology
        > hype cycle curve maybe it have its time of hype and now is on the plateau
        > of productivity, but in IMHO DP are less important now that they deserve.
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Steven Gordon
        The biggest pitfall would be presenting it primarily to pattern mavens at pattern conferences. For such an effort to be successful, the primary audience must
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 24 12:04 PM
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          The biggest pitfall would be presenting it primarily to pattern mavens at
          pattern conferences.

          For such an effort to be successful, the primary audience must be active
          Agile practitioners (e.g., coaches, scrum masters, agile PMOs, ...) and the
          primary utility should be that it makes them more effective, not that it
          leverages patterns.

          Do not emphasize the pattern formalisms, at least until after some
          successes.

          SteveG

          On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Agustin Villena <agustin.villena@...
          > wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Thank you all for the great feedback
          >
          > Many answered questioning if Design Patterns has really fallen (a fair
          > point), but that was not my point.
          >
          > My real question is:
          >
          > If we want to use Patterns to document and communicate Agile Practices,
          > which pitfalls of the early Design Patterns movement we should avoid? (for
          > the goal of being really relevant for agile practitioners)
          >
          > Saludos
          > Agust�n
          > El jul 21, 2013 9:50 PM, "Agustin Villena" <agustin.villena@...>
          > escribi�:
          >
          > > Hi all!
          > >
          > > Design Patterns was one of the great sources of XP in its origins, and
          > > therefore of the agile movement, and I still found that creating Design
          > > Patterns is a very good form of organizing knowledge, and I�m looking for
          > > an approach to document agile practices as method patterns,
          > >
          > > My questions are.
          > > - Which are the great lessons from the Rise & fall of the Design patterns
          > > movement?
          > >
          > > Thanks
          > > Agustin Villena
          > > @agustinvillena
          > >
          > > PD: I�m aware that DP is not really dead, and, following the technology
          > > hype cycle curve maybe it have its time of hype and now is on the plateau
          > > of productivity, but in IMHO DP are less important now that they deserve.
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Agustin Villena
          Steve Good points! Thanks Agustín ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 24 12:09 PM
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            Steve
            Good points!
            Thanks
            Agustín
            El jul 24, 2013 3:06 PM, "Steven Gordon" <sgordonphd@...> escribió:

            > The biggest pitfall would be presenting it primarily to pattern mavens at
            > pattern conferences.
            >
            > For such an effort to be successful, the primary audience must be active
            > Agile practitioners (e.g., coaches, scrum masters, agile PMOs, ...) and the
            > primary utility should be that it makes them more effective, not that it
            > leverages patterns.
            >
            > Do not emphasize the pattern formalisms, at least until after some
            > successes.
            >
            > SteveG
            >
            > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Agustin Villena <
            > agustin.villena@...
            > > wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Thank you all for the great feedback
            > >
            > > Many answered questioning if Design Patterns has really fallen (a fair
            > > point), but that was not my point.
            > >
            > > My real question is:
            > >
            > > If we want to use Patterns to document and communicate Agile Practices,
            > > which pitfalls of the early Design Patterns movement we should avoid?
            > (for
            > > the goal of being really relevant for agile practitioners)
            > >
            > > Saludos
            > > Agustín
            > > El jul 21, 2013 9:50 PM, "Agustin Villena" <agustin.villena@...>
            > > escribió:
            > >
            > > > Hi all!
            > > >
            > > > Design Patterns was one of the great sources of XP in its origins, and
            > > > therefore of the agile movement, and I still found that creating Design
            > > > Patterns is a very good form of organizing knowledge, and I´m looking
            > for
            > > > an approach to document agile practices as method patterns,
            > > >
            > > > My questions are.
            > > > - Which are the great lessons from the Rise & fall of the Design
            > patterns
            > > > movement?
            > > >
            > > > Thanks
            > > > Agustin Villena
            > > > @agustinvillena
            > > >
            > > > PD: I´m aware that DP is not really dead, and, following the technology
            > > > hype cycle curve maybe it have its time of hype and now is on the
            > plateau
            > > > of productivity, but in IMHO DP are less important now that they
            > deserve.
            > > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • George Dinwiddie
            Agustín, ... I would be careful to make it clear that the patterns are not recipes, and not universally good, but responses to a context. And I would
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 24 6:42 PM
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              Agustín,

              On 7/24/13 2:53 PM, Agustin Villena wrote:
              > Thank you all for the great feedback
              >
              > Many answered questioning if Design Patterns has really fallen (a fair
              > point), but that was not my point.
              >
              > My real question is:
              >
              > If we want to use Patterns to document and communicate Agile Practices,
              > which pitfalls of the early Design Patterns movement we should avoid? (for
              > the goal of being really relevant for agile practitioners)

              I would be careful to make it clear that the patterns are not recipes,
              and not "universally good," but responses to a context. And I would
              illustrate each pattern in several contexts to show variations. Tell the
              story, not just the skeleton of the pattern.

              - George

              --
              Want to speak at AgileDC October 8, 2013? http://agiledc.org/speak/
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
              Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
              Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            • Agustin Villena
              Thanks George! Saludos Agustín El jul 24, 2013 9:44 PM, George Dinwiddie ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 24 6:51 PM
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                Thanks George!

                Saludos
                Agust�n
                El jul 24, 2013 9:44 PM, "George Dinwiddie" <lists@...>
                escribi�:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Agust�n,
                >
                > On 7/24/13 2:53 PM, Agustin Villena wrote:
                > > Thank you all for the great feedback
                > >
                > > Many answered questioning if Design Patterns has really fallen (a fair
                > > point), but that was not my point.
                > >
                > > My real question is:
                > >
                > > If we want to use Patterns to document and communicate Agile Practices,
                > > which pitfalls of the early Design Patterns movement we should avoid?
                > (for
                > > the goal of being really relevant for agile practitioners)
                >
                > I would be careful to make it clear that the patterns are not recipes,
                > and not "universally good," but responses to a context. And I would
                > illustrate each pattern in several contexts to show variations. Tell the
                > story, not just the skeleton of the pattern.
                >
                > - George
                >
                > --
                > Want to speak at AgileDC October 8, 2013? http://agiledc.org/speak/
                > ----------------------------------------------------------
                > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
                > Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
                > Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
                > ----------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >
                >


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