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Re: [XP] Re: Origins of user stories

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  • Steven Gordon
    The inmate example is an interesting case. For some applications, the inmates might be the *users*, not just stakeholders. ... [Non-text portions of this
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 1, 2013
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      The inmate example is an interesting case. For some applications, the
      inmates might be the *users*, not just stakeholders.

      >
      > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JeffGrigg
      > Sent: 01 April 2013 10:29
      > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [XP] Re: Origins of user stories
      >
      > --- Steven Gordon <sgordonphd@...> wrote:
      > > The main point is that it is often necessary to factor
      > > in stakeholders involved beyond the direct users. If there
      > > are a lot of stakeholders with competing interests, ...
      >
      > The "stakeholder" thing can be overdone, if we're not careful.
      >
      > Yes, I see the value of identifying all stakeholders, and considering their
      > interests. And, generally, it's a good idea to strive to satisfy all of
      > them.
      >
      > But let's consider a corner case:
      > - The prisoners are stakeholders in a jail.
      >
      > Yes, I can conceive of all kinds of wonderful ways in which prisoner
      > stakeholder input can make prisons a much more humane and successful
      > institution. But face it: The typical prisoner's primary value would be to
      > be set free, to do what they want. And that's not exactly what we're trying
      > to achieve with the whole "jail" thing.
      >
      > Some stakeholder desires may not be the kinds of things we are trying to
      > achieve.
      >
      > It may be healthy to mediate "stakeholder input" with "we are getting paid
      > $X to accomplish 'Y'." Hey; some people may just not like that.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Malapine
      ... For any application, you can think of anti-stories that would please some users, but harm other users or stakeholders. These are often useful for testing
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 1, 2013
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        --- Steven Gordon <sgordonphd@...> wrote:
        > The inmate example is an interesting case. For some applications,
        > the inmates might be the *users*, not just stakeholders.

        For any application, you can think of anti-stories that would
        please some users, but harm other users or stakeholders. These
        are often useful for testing purposes.

        As an ATM user, I want the machine to dispense money without
        debiting my account, so I can spend more.

        As an elevator passenger, I want the car to take me straight to
        the lobby and not stop on any other floors, so I can get out
        of the building sooner.

        etc.
      • Theresa Forster (home)
        Your ATM story is interesting but wouldn t that be in odds with the epic, of A machine to dispense cash from the users account if they have the funds. Stories
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 1, 2013
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          Your ATM story is interesting but wouldn't that be in odds with the epic, of
          A machine to dispense cash from the users account if they have the funds.

          Stories are good for exploring the functionality of a system and showing up edge cases. I remember reading somewhere that user stories are a reminder for the developer to have the conversation. And that is usually with the stakeholder who is part of your team and not all users of the system. For instance an accountant who works for sage when you are working on the next version of sage, any company who purchases the product is potentially the stakeholder but there is a designated person who speaks for the stakeholder.

          Theresa

          Sent from my iPad

          On 1 Apr 2013, at 19:38, "Malapine" <madbadrabbit@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > --- Steven Gordon <sgordonphd@...> wrote:
          > > The inmate example is an interesting case. For some applications,
          > > the inmates might be the *users*, not just stakeholders.
          >
          > For any application, you can think of anti-stories that would
          > please some users, but harm other users or stakeholders. These
          > are often useful for testing purposes.
          >
          > As an ATM user, I want the machine to dispense money without
          > debiting my account, so I can spend more.
          >
          > As an elevator passenger, I want the car to take me straight to
          > the lobby and not stop on any other floors, so I can get out
          > of the building sooner.
          >
          > etc.
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Larry Brunelle
          ... [snip] ... [snip] Are you running for election somewhere? :-)
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 1, 2013
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            Malapine wrote:
            >
            [snip]

            > As an ATM user, I want the machine to dispense money without
            > debiting my account, so I can spend more.

            [snip]

            Are you running for election somewhere? :-)
          • JeffGrigg
            ... Since when are the users of a system not stakeholders? They re the ones who have to live with the system every day.
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 2, 2013
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              --- Steven Gordon <sgordonphd@...> wrote:
              > The inmate example is an interesting case. For some
              > applications, the inmates might be the *users*, not
              > just stakeholders.

              Since when are the users of a system not stakeholders?

              They're the ones who have to live with the system every day.
            • Chet Hendrickson
              It is the Customer s job to balance the desires of all the stakeholders. In the inmate case, it may be prudent for her to not provide all the features they
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 2, 2013
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                It is the Customer's job to balance the desires of all the stakeholders. In the inmate case, it may be prudent for her to not provide all the features they may wish.

                chet


                Chet Hendrickson
                lists@...



                On Apr 2, 2013, at 4:00 AM, JeffGrigg <jeffreytoddgrigg@...> wrote:

                > --- Steven Gordon <sgordonphd@...> wrote:
                > > The inmate example is an interesting case. For some
                > > applications, the inmates might be the *users*, not
                > > just stakeholders.
                >
                > Since when are the users of a system not stakeholders?
                >
                > They're the ones who have to live with the system every day.
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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