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Re: [XP] Back of the Door Sticky Note Issue Tracking.

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  • Michal Svoboda
    ... Fair enough. But I would say that s a natural occurrence, or imperfection if you will. No-one is born with coding skills, we all learn. Now if or how big
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 13, 2013
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      Ron Jeffries wrote:
      > > ... as if there were other kinds of problems. ;-)
      > Oh, there are. Like if the team doesn't know how to write code that
      > works, and tests that demonstrate that fact.

      Fair enough. But I would say that's a natural occurrence, or imperfection
      if you will. No-one is born with coding skills, we all learn.

      Now if or how big this is a problem, depends on communication. If I don't
      talk about it or they don't listen, then problem grows. So I observe that
      problems in communication are able to create proportionally greater
      disasters than anything else.

      Michal Svoboda
    • Kay A Pentecost
      +1 ... magic.
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 14, 2013
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        +1

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie
        > Poole
        > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:58 AM
        > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [XP] Back of the Door Sticky Note Issue Tracking.
        >
        > Hi George,
        >
        > Maybe we should just say "Yes, we cheated. And we figured out a way to
        > keep cheating, so that tests keep passing. Do you want us to stop?"
        >
        > Charlie
        >
        >
        > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:52 PM, George Dinwiddie
        > <lists@...>wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > John,
        > >
        > > On 3/13/13 12:42 AM, John Carter wrote:
        > > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 5:20 PM, George Dinwiddie
        > > > <lists@...>wrote:
        > > >
        > > >> I've seen a team of ordinary programmers reach the state of
        > > >> frequently shipping zero bugs (even measured after deployment), and
        > > >> quickly taking care of the ones that escaped an iteration. It's not
        magic.
        > > >>
        > > >
        > > > This is the Very Interesting Answer which I would like to bring home
        > > > to
        > > the
        > > > rest of the company....
        > > >
        > > > My colleagues are quite comfortable with the "lean manufacturing" no
        > > queues
        > > > answer, but plain flat out don't believe the "No Defect Magic" answer.
        > > >
        > > > So I'm looking for data / evidence / stories / books / papers to
        > > > convince them that we could do better.
        > >
        > > Do you think that will convince them?
        > >
        > > It didn't even convince the organization around them. The comment on
        > > their first release, when 92% of the release test scripts passed on
        > > the first attempt, was "they cheated; they tested ahead of time." I
        > > think it was the second or third release when they hit 100%.
        > >
        > > Yes, they tested, not always automated. They also had a sign on the
        > > wall that said "Zero bugs, the new normal."
        > >
        > > - George
        > >
        > > --
        > > ----------------------------------------------------------
        > > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com Software Development
        > > http://www.idiacomputing.com Consultant and Coach
        > > http://www.agilemaryland.org
        > > ----------------------------------------------------------
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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