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Re: [XP] How to find a good XP team/shop?

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  • Kay
    Hey, Ron, I don t understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long? How does one pay rent with no income?? Kay
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
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      Hey, Ron,

      I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long?

      How does one pay rent with no income??

      Kay

      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries wrote:
      >
      > Mark,
      >
      > On Jan 26, 2013, at 4:36 AM, "markusdeibel" wrote:
      >
      > > Are there other indicators for good (and bad) agile teams?
      >
      >
      > A really good Agile team will only hire people after those people have come to work with them for a while. That will tell both you and them a lot.
      >
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > It's true hard work never killed anybody, but I figure, why take the chance?
      > -- Ronald Reagan
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hi Kay, ... I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I don t have an opinion on who should pay. ... I don t know that. Ron Jeffries
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
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        Hi Kay,

        On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:45 AM, "Kay" <tranzpupy@...> wrote:

        > I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long?

        I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I don't have an opinion on who should pay.
        >
        > How does one pay rent with no income??


        I don't know that.

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion. -- Muhammad Ali




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kay
        Hey, Ron, I read come to work with them for a while as being a period of time longer than a day. so my bad, I guess. I have heard of interviews that
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
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          Hey, Ron,

          I read "come to work with them for a while" as being a period of time longer than a day. so my bad, I guess. I have heard of "interviews" that included a half-day or so of pairing... and I'd certainly be willing to do that.

          The rent question was rhetorical.

          But I suspect you knew that.

          Kay

          --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries wrote:
          >
          > Hi Kay,
          >
          > On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:45 AM, "Kay" wrote:
          >
          > > I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long?
          >
          > I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I don't have an opinion on who should pay.
          > >
          > > How does one pay rent with no income??
          >
          >
          > I don't know that.
          >
          > Ron Jeffries
          > www.XProgramming.com
          > Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion. -- Muhammad Ali
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • John Roth
          I see notes about unpaid internships being fairly common in some areas. Mostly these are from people who consider the practice abusive, but I doubt if I d be
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
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            I see notes about unpaid internships being fairly common in some areas.
            Mostly these are from people who consider the practice abusive, but I
            doubt if I'd be seeing them if the practice wasn't widespread in some
            niches.

            John Roth

            On 1/31/13 10:59 AM, Kay wrote:
            >
            > Hey, Ron,
            >
            > I read "come to work with them for a while" as being a period of time
            > longer than a day. so my bad, I guess. I have heard of "interviews"
            > that included a half-day or so of pairing... and I'd certainly be
            > willing to do that.
            >
            > The rent question was rhetorical.
            >
            > But I suspect you knew that.
            >
            > Kay
            >
            > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>, Ron Jeffries wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Kay,
            > >
            > > On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:45 AM, "Kay" wrote:
            > >
            > > > I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how
            > long?
            > >
            > > I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I
            > don't have an opinion on who should pay.
            > > >
            > > > How does one pay rent with no income??
            > >
            > >
            > > I don't know that.
            > >
            > > Ron Jeffries
            > > www.XProgramming.com
            > > Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion. -- Muhammad Ali
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • markusdeibel
            Thanks for the advice so far. These are some good starting points I can work with. Thanks, Markus
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
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              Thanks for the advice so far. These are some good starting points I can work with.

              Thanks,
              Markus

              --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "markusdeibel" wrote:
              >
              > Good day to everyone,
              > I'm new to this group since I want to learn more about XP and hwo it is used, improved, bent, etc in places that do agile development or just claim to do so.
              >
              > For the last 5.5 years I've been working mostly on waterfall projects that all had the usual problems of being late and over budget to some degree.
              >
              > One time where I had 8 weeks sitting in one room with the customer, being able to ask questions and get feedback in a matter of minutes to implement a proof of concept, the work resulted in a further order for a project (most likely to become waterfall again).
              >
              > So I was already allowed to peek into the world of agile project execution.
              >
              > After going through some books, blogs and websites in the last few months I started wondering how developers on the lookout for new job can determine if the company they are interviewing with, is not a fake agile shop.
              >
              > Is it as easy as saying: "Please show me your open workspace. Where is the planning board? Can I see you devs pair programming? Where's your on-site customer?"
              >
              > Are there other indicators for good (and bad) agile teams?
              >
              >
              > Markus
              >
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