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Re: [XP] How to find a good XP team/shop?

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  • Adam Sroka
    The first and most important step is to get connected to the local community in a city near you. Good practices thrive in an environment where professionals
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 26, 2013
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      The first and most important step is to get connected to the local
      community in a city near you. Good practices thrive in an environment where
      professionals talk to and support one another.
      On Jan 26, 2013 3:05 AM, "markusdeibel" <drum-d@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Good day to everyone,
      > I'm new to this group since I want to learn more about XP and hwo it is
      > used, improved, bent, etc in places that do agile development or just claim
      > to do so.
      >
      > For the last 5.5 years I've been working mostly on waterfall projects that
      > all had the usual problems of being late and over budget to some degree.
      >
      > One time where I had 8 weeks sitting in one room with the customer, being
      > able to ask questions and get feedback in a matter of minutes to implement
      > a proof of concept, the work resulted in a further order for a project
      > (most likely to become waterfall again).
      >
      > So I was already allowed to peek into the world of agile project execution.
      >
      > After going through some books, blogs and websites in the last few months
      > I started wondering how developers on the lookout for new job can determine
      > if the company they are interviewing with, is not a fake agile shop.
      >
      > Is it as easy as saying: "Please show me your open workspace. Where is the
      > planning board? Can I see you devs pair programming? Where's your on-site
      > customer?"
      >
      > Are there other indicators for good (and bad) agile teams?
      >
      > Markus
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kay
      Hey, Ron, I don t understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long? How does one pay rent with no income?? Kay
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
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        Hey, Ron,

        I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long?

        How does one pay rent with no income??

        Kay

        --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries wrote:
        >
        > Mark,
        >
        > On Jan 26, 2013, at 4:36 AM, "markusdeibel" wrote:
        >
        > > Are there other indicators for good (and bad) agile teams?
        >
        >
        > A really good Agile team will only hire people after those people have come to work with them for a while. That will tell both you and them a lot.
        >
        > Ron Jeffries
        > www.XProgramming.com
        > It's true hard work never killed anybody, but I figure, why take the chance?
        > -- Ronald Reagan
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Ron Jeffries
        Hi Kay, ... I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I don t have an opinion on who should pay. ... I don t know that. Ron Jeffries
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
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          Hi Kay,

          On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:45 AM, "Kay" <tranzpupy@...> wrote:

          > I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long?

          I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I don't have an opinion on who should pay.
          >
          > How does one pay rent with no income??


          I don't know that.

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion. -- Muhammad Ali




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kay
          Hey, Ron, I read come to work with them for a while as being a period of time longer than a day. so my bad, I guess. I have heard of interviews that
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
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            Hey, Ron,

            I read "come to work with them for a while" as being a period of time longer than a day. so my bad, I guess. I have heard of "interviews" that included a half-day or so of pairing... and I'd certainly be willing to do that.

            The rent question was rhetorical.

            But I suspect you knew that.

            Kay

            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries wrote:
            >
            > Hi Kay,
            >
            > On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:45 AM, "Kay" wrote:
            >
            > > I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long?
            >
            > I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I don't have an opinion on who should pay.
            > >
            > > How does one pay rent with no income??
            >
            >
            > I don't know that.
            >
            > Ron Jeffries
            > www.XProgramming.com
            > Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion. -- Muhammad Ali
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • John Roth
            I see notes about unpaid internships being fairly common in some areas. Mostly these are from people who consider the practice abusive, but I doubt if I d be
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
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              I see notes about unpaid internships being fairly common in some areas.
              Mostly these are from people who consider the practice abusive, but I
              doubt if I'd be seeing them if the practice wasn't widespread in some
              niches.

              John Roth

              On 1/31/13 10:59 AM, Kay wrote:
              >
              > Hey, Ron,
              >
              > I read "come to work with them for a while" as being a period of time
              > longer than a day. so my bad, I guess. I have heard of "interviews"
              > that included a half-day or so of pairing... and I'd certainly be
              > willing to do that.
              >
              > The rent question was rhetorical.
              >
              > But I suspect you knew that.
              >
              > Kay
              >
              > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>, Ron Jeffries wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Kay,
              > >
              > > On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:45 AM, "Kay" wrote:
              > >
              > > > I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how
              > long?
              > >
              > > I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I
              > don't have an opinion on who should pay.
              > > >
              > > > How does one pay rent with no income??
              > >
              > >
              > > I don't know that.
              > >
              > > Ron Jeffries
              > > www.XProgramming.com
              > > Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion. -- Muhammad Ali
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • markusdeibel
              Thanks for the advice so far. These are some good starting points I can work with. Thanks, Markus
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
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                Thanks for the advice so far. These are some good starting points I can work with.

                Thanks,
                Markus

                --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "markusdeibel" wrote:
                >
                > Good day to everyone,
                > I'm new to this group since I want to learn more about XP and hwo it is used, improved, bent, etc in places that do agile development or just claim to do so.
                >
                > For the last 5.5 years I've been working mostly on waterfall projects that all had the usual problems of being late and over budget to some degree.
                >
                > One time where I had 8 weeks sitting in one room with the customer, being able to ask questions and get feedback in a matter of minutes to implement a proof of concept, the work resulted in a further order for a project (most likely to become waterfall again).
                >
                > So I was already allowed to peek into the world of agile project execution.
                >
                > After going through some books, blogs and websites in the last few months I started wondering how developers on the lookout for new job can determine if the company they are interviewing with, is not a fake agile shop.
                >
                > Is it as easy as saying: "Please show me your open workspace. Where is the planning board? Can I see you devs pair programming? Where's your on-site customer?"
                >
                > Are there other indicators for good (and bad) agile teams?
                >
                >
                > Markus
                >
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