Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [XP] How to find a good XP team/shop?

Expand Messages
  • Charlie Poole
    Hi Markus, Be clear with yourself about whether you re looking for an XP shop or an Agile shop. If they are doing XP, the questions you suggest are all good
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 26, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Markus,

      Be clear with yourself about whether you're looking for an XP shop or an
      "Agile" shop. If they are doing XP, the questions you suggest are all good
      ones and nobody should be put off by your asking them. On the contrary,
      they show that you really know what you want.

      OTOH, "agile" - even aside from "fake agile" - can look quite different in
      different settings. You may want to ask more open questions like "Do you do
      TDD?" or "How to you get questions answered from the customer?"

      Good luck in your search!

      Charlie


      On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:36 AM, markusdeibel <drum-d@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Good day to everyone,
      > I'm new to this group since I want to learn more about XP and hwo it is
      > used, improved, bent, etc in places that do agile development or just claim
      > to do so.
      >
      > For the last 5.5 years I've been working mostly on waterfall projects that
      > all had the usual problems of being late and over budget to some degree.
      >
      > One time where I had 8 weeks sitting in one room with the customer, being
      > able to ask questions and get feedback in a matter of minutes to implement
      > a proof of concept, the work resulted in a further order for a project
      > (most likely to become waterfall again).
      >
      > So I was already allowed to peek into the world of agile project execution.
      >
      > After going through some books, blogs and websites in the last few months
      > I started wondering how developers on the lookout for new job can determine
      > if the company they are interviewing with, is not a fake agile shop.
      >
      > Is it as easy as saying: "Please show me your open workspace. Where is the
      > planning board? Can I see you devs pair programming? Where's your on-site
      > customer?"
      >
      > Are there other indicators for good (and bad) agile teams?
      >
      > Markus
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Adam Sroka
      The first and most important step is to get connected to the local community in a city near you. Good practices thrive in an environment where professionals
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 26, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        The first and most important step is to get connected to the local
        community in a city near you. Good practices thrive in an environment where
        professionals talk to and support one another.
        On Jan 26, 2013 3:05 AM, "markusdeibel" <drum-d@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Good day to everyone,
        > I'm new to this group since I want to learn more about XP and hwo it is
        > used, improved, bent, etc in places that do agile development or just claim
        > to do so.
        >
        > For the last 5.5 years I've been working mostly on waterfall projects that
        > all had the usual problems of being late and over budget to some degree.
        >
        > One time where I had 8 weeks sitting in one room with the customer, being
        > able to ask questions and get feedback in a matter of minutes to implement
        > a proof of concept, the work resulted in a further order for a project
        > (most likely to become waterfall again).
        >
        > So I was already allowed to peek into the world of agile project execution.
        >
        > After going through some books, blogs and websites in the last few months
        > I started wondering how developers on the lookout for new job can determine
        > if the company they are interviewing with, is not a fake agile shop.
        >
        > Is it as easy as saying: "Please show me your open workspace. Where is the
        > planning board? Can I see you devs pair programming? Where's your on-site
        > customer?"
        >
        > Are there other indicators for good (and bad) agile teams?
        >
        > Markus
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kay
        Hey, Ron, I don t understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long? How does one pay rent with no income?? Kay
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Hey, Ron,

          I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long?

          How does one pay rent with no income??

          Kay

          --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries wrote:
          >
          > Mark,
          >
          > On Jan 26, 2013, at 4:36 AM, "markusdeibel" wrote:
          >
          > > Are there other indicators for good (and bad) agile teams?
          >
          >
          > A really good Agile team will only hire people after those people have come to work with them for a while. That will tell both you and them a lot.
          >
          > Ron Jeffries
          > www.XProgramming.com
          > It's true hard work never killed anybody, but I figure, why take the chance?
          > -- Ronald Reagan
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Ron Jeffries
          Hi Kay, ... I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I don t have an opinion on who should pay. ... I don t know that. Ron Jeffries
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Kay,

            On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:45 AM, "Kay" <tranzpupy@...> wrote:

            > I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long?

            I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I don't have an opinion on who should pay.
            >
            > How does one pay rent with no income??


            I don't know that.

            Ron Jeffries
            www.XProgramming.com
            Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion. -- Muhammad Ali




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kay
            Hey, Ron, I read come to work with them for a while as being a period of time longer than a day. so my bad, I guess. I have heard of interviews that
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Hey, Ron,

              I read "come to work with them for a while" as being a period of time longer than a day. so my bad, I guess. I have heard of "interviews" that included a half-day or so of pairing... and I'd certainly be willing to do that.

              The rent question was rhetorical.

              But I suspect you knew that.

              Kay

              --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries wrote:
              >
              > Hi Kay,
              >
              > On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:45 AM, "Kay" wrote:
              >
              > > I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how long?
              >
              > I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I don't have an opinion on who should pay.
              > >
              > > How does one pay rent with no income??
              >
              >
              > I don't know that.
              >
              > Ron Jeffries
              > www.XProgramming.com
              > Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion. -- Muhammad Ali
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • John Roth
              I see notes about unpaid internships being fairly common in some areas. Mostly these are from people who consider the practice abusive, but I doubt if I d be
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                I see notes about unpaid internships being fairly common in some areas.
                Mostly these are from people who consider the practice abusive, but I
                doubt if I'd be seeing them if the practice wasn't widespread in some
                niches.

                John Roth

                On 1/31/13 10:59 AM, Kay wrote:
                >
                > Hey, Ron,
                >
                > I read "come to work with them for a while" as being a period of time
                > longer than a day. so my bad, I guess. I have heard of "interviews"
                > that included a half-day or so of pairing... and I'd certainly be
                > willing to do that.
                >
                > The rent question was rhetorical.
                >
                > But I suspect you knew that.
                >
                > Kay
                >
                > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>, Ron Jeffries wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Kay,
                > >
                > > On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:45 AM, "Kay" wrote:
                > >
                > > > I don't understand. They want you to work for nothing? And for how
                > long?
                > >
                > > I said they would want to work with people. A day might suffice. I
                > don't have an opinion on who should pay.
                > > >
                > > > How does one pay rent with no income??
                > >
                > >
                > > I don't know that.
                > >
                > > Ron Jeffries
                > > www.XProgramming.com
                > > Impossible is not a fact. It is an opinion. -- Muhammad Ali
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • markusdeibel
                Thanks for the advice so far. These are some good starting points I can work with. Thanks, Markus
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 31, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks for the advice so far. These are some good starting points I can work with.

                  Thanks,
                  Markus

                  --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "markusdeibel" wrote:
                  >
                  > Good day to everyone,
                  > I'm new to this group since I want to learn more about XP and hwo it is used, improved, bent, etc in places that do agile development or just claim to do so.
                  >
                  > For the last 5.5 years I've been working mostly on waterfall projects that all had the usual problems of being late and over budget to some degree.
                  >
                  > One time where I had 8 weeks sitting in one room with the customer, being able to ask questions and get feedback in a matter of minutes to implement a proof of concept, the work resulted in a further order for a project (most likely to become waterfall again).
                  >
                  > So I was already allowed to peek into the world of agile project execution.
                  >
                  > After going through some books, blogs and websites in the last few months I started wondering how developers on the lookout for new job can determine if the company they are interviewing with, is not a fake agile shop.
                  >
                  > Is it as easy as saying: "Please show me your open workspace. Where is the planning board? Can I see you devs pair programming? Where's your on-site customer?"
                  >
                  > Are there other indicators for good (and bad) agile teams?
                  >
                  >
                  > Markus
                  >
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.