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Re: [XP] Scrum, and Revolution

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  • Angela Harms
    As a first step, I hereby steal Deep Agile . Or maybe it well become deep agile xp . sent from my phone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
    Message 1 of 167 , Dec 9, 2012
      As a first step, I hereby steal "Deep Agile". Or maybe it well become "deep
      agile xp".

      sent from my phone
      On Dec 9, 2012 5:36 PM, "RonJeffries" <ronjeffries@...> wrote:

      > **
      > On Dec 9, 2012, at 3:34 PM, "daswartz@prodigy" <daswartz@...>
      > wrote:
      > > Friday, December 7, 2012, 11:37:32 AM, Ron Jeffries wrote:
      > >
      > >> Scrum comes in two forms:
      > >
      > >> One: Stuff that works kind of well, but not VERY well.
      > >
      > > Ah. But, even little tiny improvements feel so good, when we're in a
      > > place where we haven't seen any improvement for years.
      > True enough, but I had hoped for more. Still do ...
      > >
      > > Unfortunately, the way many organizations are, we never get beyond
      > > this.
      > >
      > >> Two: Extreme Programming.
      > >
      > > Yep. Why is it that so many people think Extreme Programming is only
      > > for programmers?
      > Could it be that silly name?
      > >
      > >> Scrum as a movement continues to grow, but it's not really going
      > anywhere.
      > >
      > > Well, it's going places like SAFe. Maybe big organizations will get
      > > some benefit out of the Scaled Agile Framework. They seem to think it
      > > addresses big issues. Unfortunately, it also feels very BIG. But,
      > > we'll see. I'm going to class on it this week.
      > Please give us a report on it. I'm not sure where it comes from. The Scrum
      > Alliance certainly isn't behind it. They are sailing slowly, but maybe
      > surely toward raising the bar for "certification". I support raising the
      > bar though I do not care for the word "certification", since the holders of
      > the cert are not uniformly impressive.
      > >
      > >> Someone should do something about this.
      > >
      > > Someone's been keeping Ron Jeffries in a cage for the last couple of
      > > years. He got let out. Hooray!
      > I've been working from within. :) Seriously, I'd like to see a resurgence
      > of what Chet and I have started referring to as "Deep Agile", representing
      > what happens when you do more than just dip your toes in the shallow end of
      > the pool. And I'm starting to understand some things that I didn't
      > understand a decade ago, which may be of some value.
      > I certainly deeply respect those like Dave and others who would prefer to
      > do it. Changing the world you're in is perfectly good. "Be the change you
      > want to see" and all that. And do what you bloody well like -- that's
      > certainly what I do. :)
      > That said, I think there is a sort of stagnation going on. Or at least the
      > wave has spread so far that it's hitting people as more of a ripple. Makes
      > me think there might be some way to make another wave. I'd like that, if it
      > didn't take me too far from the coffee shop where I spend most of my time.
      > Anyone got a wave in their pocket?
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > Don't ignore your dreams; don't work too much; say what you think;
      > cultivate friendships; be happy. -- Paul Graham
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tom Rossen
      Rob, Thanks for your kind offer. I am currently gainfully employed - until Feb. 2, when my current contract runs out. Northern Trust renewed it as many times
      Message 167 of 167 , Dec 30, 2012

        Thanks for your kind offer. I am currently gainfully employed - until Feb.
        2, when my current contract runs out. Northern Trust renewed it as many
        times as they could, but there's a hard limit of 1.5 years.

        Re the high-performing teams: it's funny, but I really think I prefer
        working with an organization that's struggling with Agile. I'm extremely
        curious as to why XP practices, which seemed so obvious and satisfying when
        I first read Kent Beck's book years ago, are so frustrating for developers
        and managers who aren't used to them and didn't volunteer for them. I was
        rather seriously burned on my previous engagement when the company was
        acquired by a conglomerate and the policy of openness to Agile suddenly
        evaporated, so my insistence on TDD - which no longer seems as doomed as it
        would have been just a year ago, based on what I'm seeing now in the
        Chicago area - is protection against that sort of thing.

        So I'm curious about the high-performing teams you mention - at least in
        the Chicago area: I don't intend to relocate or commute a long distance (I
        worked in Madison, WI for several years after the dot-com-bomb wiped out
        the Chicago market - not a fun commute).


        On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Rob Myers <rob.myers@...>wrote:

        > **
        > Tom,
        > Thanks for the supportive reply!
        > > 35 years in my case, and amen! Here's a snippet from the cover letter
        > I've
        > > been sending out recently:
        > Tom, if you are not currently gainfully employed, I can point you to a few
        > truly high-performing teams across the country. They are in the minority,
        > as most software/IT organizations struggle to change those
        > command-and-control cultures, and to foster passion and creativity in both
        > Product and Development areas.
        > > *I just thought of an analogy to explain why I am so single-minded about
        > > TDD. Suppose you need an operation and you're looking for a hospital to
        > do
        > > it. A major hospital sends you a wonderful brochure explaining how
        > > successful they are, what a high-tech surgical suite they have,, etc.,
        > etc.
        > > But when you call up and ask them whether the surgeons wash their hands
        > > before operating, they say, "Why would we want to do that?" Oh yes,
        > > surgery was practiced for centuries before surgeons ever scrubbed up -
        > it's
        > > a great tradition. But I don't think you'd want to have anything to do
        > with
        > > a hospital like that. That's how I feel about TDD. It's a matter of
        > > funda**mental
        > > software hygiene. *
        > It's a perfect analogy. Scott Bain uses this in his book /Emergent Design/
        > as one example of how software development is similar to surgery. (Aside:
        > Apologies if I popped an original-idea bubble: So often I find I think of
        > something original, only to spot it in a blog post the next day. It's the
        > Newton-Leibniz Effect ;-) The medical field provides an analogy that gets
        > us much farther than bridge-building. Of course, no analogy is perfect, but
        > I often find myself thinking "Doctor, it hurts when I do *this*!" ;-)
        > Happy Holidays!
        > Rob
        > Rob.Myers@...
        > Twitter: @agilecoach
        > http://www.agileInstitute.com/

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