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How does the work in iteration gets inspected in XP?

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  • Joshua Partogi
    Hiya, I am wondering how does the output of the iteration gets inspected since I could not find this in any literature about XP. Does the XP customer inspect
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 20, 2012
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      Hiya,

      I am wondering how does the output of the iteration gets inspected since I
      could not find this in any literature about XP. Does the XP customer
      inspect the software everyday as written in "Customer Tests" as opposed to
      at the end of the iteration like Sprint Review in Scrum?

      Thanks.

      --
      @jpartogi


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dave Rooney
      ... Hi Josh, What do you mean by inspected ? A code review? Accepting completed stories? Something different? Dave... *Dave Rooney* | Agile Coach and
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 20, 2012
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        On 12-03-20 11:45 AM, Joshua Partogi wrote:
        > Hiya,
        >
        > I am wondering how does the output of the iteration gets inspected since I
        > could not find this in any literature about XP. Does the XP customer
        > inspect the software everyday as written in "Customer Tests" as opposed to
        > at the end of the iteration like Sprint Review in Scrum?
        >
        > Thanks.
        >

        Hi Josh,

        What do you mean by "inspected"? A code review? Accepting completed
        stories? Something different?

        Dave...
        *Dave Rooney* | Agile Coach and Co-founder
        Westboro Systems <http://www.westborosystems.com/> - Agile Coaching,
        Training, Organizational Transformation.
        Blog <http://practicalagility.blogspot.com> | Twitter
        <http://twitter.com/daverooneyca> | LinkedIn
        <http://www.linkedin.com/in/daverooneyagile> | Phone: +1.855.AGILE123



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • RonJeffries
        Hello JOshua, ... I m not sure what you mean by inspect . I would recommend both continuous display of progress to the Customer and a periodic review and
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 20, 2012
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          Hello JOshua,

          On Mar 20, 2012, at 11:45 AM, Joshua Partogi wrote:

          > I am wondering how does the output of the iteration gets inspected since I
          > could not find this in any literature about XP. Does the XP customer
          > inspect the software everyday as written in "Customer Tests" as opposed to
          > at the end of the iteration like Sprint Review in Scrum?


          I'm not sure what you mean by "inspect". I would recommend both continuous display of progress to the Customer and a periodic review and retrospective much like Scrum's.

          I fear that I am detecting the notion that XP or Scrum is supposed to tell you everything. That is not the case. They are supposed to put you in a position where you can see what's going on and figure out what to do about it.

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          Before you contradict an old man, my fair friend, you should endeavor to understand him. - George Santayana



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Steven Gordon
          There are reasons why XP says the team should be working together in the same large work space and that the customer should be highly available. This is so
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 20, 2012
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            There are reasons why XP says the team should be working together in the
            same large work space and that the customer should be highly available.
            This is so that anybody can ask anybody else at any time whatever they
            think will help produce a better results. This includes asking the
            customer if some story works the way it should.

            Co-location means you do not have to wait until some prescribed time - just
            collaborate when it makes sense. If you are interrupting too infrequently
            or too frequently, it will come up in the retrospective and you can
            eventually find the right mix of heads-down and heads-up for the specific
            context.

            On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:52 AM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > Hello JOshua,
            >
            >
            > On Mar 20, 2012, at 11:45 AM, Joshua Partogi wrote:
            >
            > > I am wondering how does the output of the iteration gets inspected since
            > I
            > > could not find this in any literature about XP. Does the XP customer
            > > inspect the software everyday as written in "Customer Tests" as opposed
            > to
            > > at the end of the iteration like Sprint Review in Scrum?
            >
            > I'm not sure what you mean by "inspect". I would recommend both continuous
            > display of progress to the Customer and a periodic review and retrospective
            > much like Scrum's.
            >
            > I fear that I am detecting the notion that XP or Scrum is supposed to tell
            > you everything. That is not the case. They are supposed to put you in a
            > position where you can see what's going on and figure out what to do about
            > it.
            >
            > Ron Jeffries
            > www.XProgramming.com
            > Before you contradict an old man, my fair friend, you should endeavor to
            > understand him. - George Santayana
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joshua
            Hi, Sorry to confuse you. In Scrum the work within the Sprint gets inspected during Sprint Review. How does the work in the XP Iteration gets reviewed? Is
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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              Hi,

              Sorry to confuse you. In Scrum the work within the Sprint gets inspected during Sprint Review. How does the work in the XP Iteration gets reviewed? Is there any dedicated ceremony in XP to review the work done?

              --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Dave Rooney <dave.rooney@...> wrote:
              >
              > On 12-03-20 11:45 AM, Joshua Partogi wrote:
              > > Hiya,
              > >
              > > I am wondering how does the output of the iteration gets inspected since I
              > > could not find this in any literature about XP. Does the XP customer
              > > inspect the software everyday as written in "Customer Tests" as opposed to
              > > at the end of the iteration like Sprint Review in Scrum?
              > >
              > > Thanks.
              > >
              >
              > Hi Josh,
              >
              > What do you mean by "inspected"? A code review? Accepting completed
              > stories? Something different?
              >
              > Dave...
              > *Dave Rooney* | Agile Coach and Co-founder
              > Westboro Systems <http://www.westborosystems.com/> - Agile Coaching,
              > Training, Organizational Transformation.
              > Blog <http://practicalagility.blogspot.com> | Twitter
              > <http://twitter.com/daverooneyca> | LinkedIn
              > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/daverooneyagile> | Phone: +1.855.AGILE123
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • RonJeffries
              ... In Sprint Review the stakeholders see the accepted backlog items for the Sprint. They do not inspect the code. The Sprint Review is used to get ideas for
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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                On Mar 21, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Joshua wrote:

                > Sorry to confuse you. In Scrum the work within the Sprint gets inspected during Sprint Review.

                In Sprint Review the stakeholders see the accepted backlog items for the Sprint. They do not inspect the code. The Sprint Review is used to get ideas for new things to do and to learn a bit from what has gone before, in preparation for Sprint Retrospective.

                > How does the work in the XP Iteration gets reviewed? Is there any dedicated ceremony in XP to review the work done?


                No. XP has no such named ceremony. The Planning Game / Small Releases / Customer Tests / Whole Team cycle provides the visibility. If I were writing it up today I would emphasize retrospectives but would personally not add a Sprint Review equivalent.

                If I were to read between your lines, it sounds to me as if you are trying to find out about a specific process to do. Neither Scrum nor XP are specific processes in that sense. They create an environment where the team (which includes the business-side people) can see what is going on and improve it. The specifics are up to the team.

                Ron Jeffries
                www.XProgramming.com
                Everything that needs to be said has already been said.
                But since no one was listening, everything must be said again. -- Andre Gide



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Adam Sroka
                In original XP as I understood it, and as we practiced it in my early days, we did pretty much the same thing Scrum does. The main difference is that we had
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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                  In original XP as I understood it, and as we practiced it in my early days,
                  we did pretty much the same thing Scrum does. The main difference is that
                  we had just one weekly meeting where we played the planning game, and that
                  incorporated both what you call the review and the planning meeting.
                  Certain things were a little less formalized, but the way we did it working
                  software was always demoed in the conversation leading up to what we would
                  do next.

                  Later on things evolved and we started demoing more continuously by having
                  a running version of the software as it currently looked in source control
                  always available to the customer to play with. We would encourage them to
                  play with it and give us feedback.

                  Some teams now do continuous delivery to production. So, the review is: "go
                  look at the site." The customer has to pay a lot of attention then.
                  Sometimes they ask you to undo things!

                  XP is no longer really just one thing, because a lot of folks have been
                  doing it for a while and learning and adapting to create their own way of
                  doing things. So, there are a number of flavors now that descend from XP to
                  one degree or another and it all just kind of gets blanketed under
                  Agile-something-or-other.

                  On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Joshua <joshua.java@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > Sorry to confuse you. In Scrum the work within the Sprint gets inspected
                  > during Sprint Review. How does the work in the XP Iteration gets reviewed?
                  > Is there any dedicated ceremony in XP to review the work done?
                  >
                  > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Dave Rooney <dave.rooney@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > On 12-03-20 11:45 AM, Joshua Partogi wrote:
                  > > > Hiya,
                  > > >
                  > > > I am wondering how does the output of the iteration gets inspected
                  > since I
                  > > > could not find this in any literature about XP. Does the XP customer
                  > > > inspect the software everyday as written in "Customer Tests" as
                  > opposed to
                  > > > at the end of the iteration like Sprint Review in Scrum?
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Josh,
                  > >
                  > > What do you mean by "inspected"? A code review? Accepting completed
                  > > stories? Something different?
                  > >
                  > > Dave...
                  > > *Dave Rooney* | Agile Coach and Co-founder
                  > > Westboro Systems <http://www.westborosystems.com/> - Agile Coaching,
                  > > Training, Organizational Transformation.
                  > > Blog <http://practicalagility.blogspot.com> | Twitter
                  > > <http://twitter.com/daverooneyca> | LinkedIn
                  > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/daverooneyagile> | Phone: +1.855.AGILE123
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Joshua Partogi
                  Thanks Ron. From what I understand, an iteration is 2 weeks long. So what happens at the end of the iteration? ... during Sprint Review. ... Sprint. They do
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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                    Thanks Ron. From what I understand, an iteration is 2 weeks long. So what
                    happens at the end of the iteration?

                    On Thursday, March 22, 2012, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > On Mar 21, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Joshua wrote:
                    >
                    >> Sorry to confuse you. In Scrum the work within the Sprint gets inspected
                    during Sprint Review.
                    >
                    > In Sprint Review the stakeholders see the accepted backlog items for the
                    Sprint. They do not inspect the code. The Sprint Review is used to get
                    ideas for new things to do and to learn a bit from what has gone before, in
                    preparation for Sprint Retrospective.
                    >
                    >> How does the work in the XP Iteration gets reviewed? Is there any
                    dedicated ceremony in XP to review the work done?
                    >
                    > No. XP has no such named ceremony. The Planning Game / Small Releases /
                    Customer Tests / Whole Team cycle provides the visibility. If I were
                    writing it up today I would emphasize retrospectives but would personally
                    not add a Sprint Review equivalent.
                    >
                    > If I were to read between your lines, it sounds to me as if you are
                    trying to find out about a specific process to do. Neither Scrum nor XP are
                    specific processes in that sense. They create an environment where the team
                    (which includes the business-side people) can see what is going on and
                    improve it. The specifics are up to the team.
                    >
                    > Ron Jeffries
                    > www.XProgramming.com
                    > Everything that needs to be said has already been said.
                    > But since no one was listening, everything must be said again. -- Andre
                    Gide
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    @jpartogi


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • RonJeffries
                    Joshua, ... Another planning meeting. Which of the XP books have you read so far? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com If another does not intend offense, it is
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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                      Joshua,

                      On Mar 21, 2012, at 10:01 PM, Joshua Partogi wrote:

                      > Thanks Ron. From what I understand, an iteration is 2 weeks long. So what
                      > happens at the end of the iteration?


                      Another planning meeting. Which of the XP books have you read so far?

                      Ron Jeffries
                      www.XProgramming.com
                      If another does not intend offense, it is wrong for me to seek it;
                      if another does indeed intend offense, it is foolish for me to permit it.
                      -- Kelly Easterley



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Adam Sroka
                      1-4 weeks with preference for the shorter... Though eventually most of the community came to favor one-week iterations. Some now have dropped iterations.
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 21, 2012
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                        1-4 weeks "with preference for the shorter..." Though eventually most
                        of the community came to favor one-week iterations. Some now have
                        dropped iterations.

                        On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Joshua Partogi <joshua.java@...> wrote:
                        > Thanks Ron. From what I understand, an iteration is 2 weeks long. So what
                        > happens at the end of the iteration?
                        >
                        > On Thursday, March 22, 2012, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> On Mar 21, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Joshua wrote:
                        >>
                        >>> Sorry to confuse you. In Scrum the work within the Sprint gets inspected
                        > during Sprint Review.
                        >>
                        >> In Sprint Review the stakeholders see the accepted backlog items for the
                        > Sprint. They do not inspect the code. The Sprint Review is used to get
                        > ideas for new things to do and to learn a bit from what has gone before, in
                        > preparation for Sprint Retrospective.
                        >>
                        >>> How does the work in the XP Iteration gets reviewed? Is there any
                        > dedicated ceremony in XP to review the work done?
                        >>
                        >> No. XP has no such named ceremony. The Planning Game / Small Releases /
                        > Customer Tests / Whole Team cycle provides the visibility. If I were
                        > writing it up today I would emphasize retrospectives but would personally
                        > not add a Sprint Review equivalent.
                        >>
                        >> If I were to read between your lines, it sounds to me as if you are
                        > trying to find out about a specific process to do. Neither Scrum nor XP are
                        > specific processes in that sense. They create an environment where the team
                        > (which includes the business-side people) can see what is going on and
                        > improve it. The specifics are up to the team.
                        >>
                        >> Ron Jeffries
                        >> www.XProgramming.com
                        >> Everything that needs to be said has already been said.
                        >> But since no one was listening, everything must be said again. -- Andre
                        > Gide
                        >>
                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        > --
                        > @jpartogi
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
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