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Re: [XP] BAUF

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  • RonJeffries
    ... Yes. Maturity level is not an Agile concept. It is an SEI concept and the general usage of the term is not well aligned with what Agile and XP are about,
    Message 1 of 71 , Mar 20, 2012
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      On Mar 20, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Curtis Cooley wrote:

      > I don't recall that being a concept back in 2000. I tried to read
      > everything I could find on XP, so I must have missed it.

      Yes. "Maturity level" is not an Agile concept. It is an SEI concept and the general usage of the term is not well aligned with what Agile and XP are about, in my opinion.

      That's not to say that we don't want the code to get better and better. That is not a function of maturity, it is a function of increasing skill and increasing responsibility. Those two things are in no sense that I can see correlated with "maturity".
      >
      > We weren't beginner programmers. We had very senior guys who wrote some
      > very good code. We were a beginner XP team.
      >
      > I do believe our code got simpler and with TDD, more cohesive and less
      > coupled, but we never talked about the "XPness" of our code as a marker of
      > our progress.


      Exactly. XP is not the goal. Agile is not the goal. Quality code meeting customer needs, timely delivered in short cycles ... even that isn't the goal. It's the means.

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way. -- Jessica Rabbit



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • George Dinwiddie
      Dave, ... Yes. My approach (or, one of them) is to compare the behavior and practices you mention with the values and principles of the manifesto. Agile
      Message 71 of 71 , Apr 9, 2012
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        Dave,

        On 4/9/12 8:56 AM, Dave Rooney wrote:
        > On 12-04-09 8:18 AM, George Dinwiddie wrote:
        >> On 4/9/12 7:30 AM, RonJeffries wrote:
        >>> Paul,
        >>>
        >>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 2:59 AM, PAUL wrote:
        >>>
        >>>> Have you ever considered that you are in a minority? There are many
        >>>> that do a number of the things you don't under the banner of
        >>>> Agile.
        >>>
        >>> I'd suggest, Paul, that you should discuss that concern directly with
        >>> the ones you know who do those things.
        >> +1. I'm very tired of people saying "Agile is dead" because marketers
        >> are jumping on the bandwagon.
        >>
        >
        > Hi George,
        >
        > Who said "marketers"?
        >
        > Haven't you and Ron and others here dealt with developers, testers,
        > business analysts, managers, directors, CxO's, janitors who claim to be
        > "doing Agile" or "using Agile" because they have a daily meeting and not
        > much else? I know I have.
        >
        > As you're aware, I'm having a tough time reconciling the behaviour and
        > practices I'm seeing done in the name of Agile to what I learned from
        > XP. Agile as we knew it after the term was coined isn't really like
        > that now, in my experience. Some people get it, many more do not. The
        > term is being diluted to the point of being meaningless, and we're
        > seeing the same old attitudes, same old practices and same old problems
        > occurring, except now they're under the banner of "Agile".

        Yes. My approach (or, one of them) is to compare the behavior and
        practices you mention with the values and principles of the manifesto.
        Agile Software Development is more than a word.

        I was just reading
        http://www.bulletproofmusician.com/how-many-hours-a-day-should-you-practice/
        and was struck by how much it applies to software development. If we're
        not practicing /mindfully/ then we're just reinforcing bad habits.

        - George

        --
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
        Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
        Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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