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Re: [XP] Introverts, Agile and Creativity

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  • M. Manca
    ... Why? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 68 , Feb 9, 2012
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      Il 10/02/2012 00:03, Steven Gordon ha scritto:
      > M.M,
      >
      > Everything you write makes me doubt that you are really an introvert.
      Why?
      >
      > SteveG
      >
      > On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 11:47 AM, M. Manca <m.manca@...> wrote:
      >> Il 09/02/2012 17:06, Esther Schindler ha scritto:
      >>> On Feb 7, 2012, at 9:50 AM, Acaz Souza Pereira wrote:
      >>>> recently came out studies on introverts and creativity and I do not know if
      >>>> the community is knowing:
      >>>>
      >>>> The Power of Introverts: A Manifesto for Quiet Brilliance: Scientific
      >>>> American<http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-power-of-introverts>
      >> Dear Esther,
      >> I am also an introvert but I think that we could define an "introvertion
      >> grade" because I am introvert but I haven't problems to speak to a large
      >> audience and I had the lucky to have very nice girlfriends and a very
      >> beautiful wife and I was always attracted by girls with a lot of charm.
      >> I like also to meet friends and much of them have nothing to do with R&D
      >> and engineering. So seems that I am very much less introvert then Ron
      >> Jeffries :-) (based on reading his post, I didn't meet personally Ron).
      >>
      >> I think that we could agree to say that an introvert as me and Ron and
      >> many others is very difficult that could work as an actor or a TV
      >> speaker; generally an introvert doesn't like speak to a big audience and
      >> we are very attracted by jobs where we can use our analytical skills.
      >>
      >> I think also that about the 80% of software, electronics and mechanics
      >> engineers I know in my life are introverts. Many of them worked or are
      >> working in a team and they are still very creative as a "solo team" and
      >> better creative as a multi engineers team.
      >>
      >> Seems that I am right because I found this in an Italian psychology
      >> book (I translated here):
      >> "The frequency with which an introverted orientation is found in the
      >> biographies of saints, scientists, engineers, philosophers, writers,
      >> poets, painters, several of whom also experience some psychological
      >> distress, attests that it is full of creative potential, but not immune
      >> to risks."
      >>
      >> So, I really think that Susan results may be read in a different way,
      >> could be better to analyze why and what so creative engineers could be
      >> creative alone and not in a team. I think also that doing that Susan is
      >> a lawyer (if I understand well) it is likely difficult to her understand
      >> who is really creative and who is not.
      >>
      >> I was a young engineer, then a senior engineer, a team leader and also
      >> an electronics and software team manager, then I decided to start up a
      >> my company and now I am an happy consultant that likes to work in little
      >> or large teams adopting R&D and human methods far from those I learned
      >> during my "previous" career working as dependent.
      >>
      >> So I can say that the main reason that reduce the creativity of a team
      >> is the pressure made by managers and the ratings they have in mind about
      >> their engineers that most of the time aren't related to their technical
      >> skills but to personal feeling or to their ability to finish their job
      >> on time (so engineers in these situation try to assign the highly risk
      >> parts to the youngest engineer that can't understand the problem and
      >> when he understands the problem.... is too late).
      >>
      >> Unfortunately it is still quite too common that to see the engineers to
      >> work quickly is necessary to keep them under constant pressure.
      >>
      >> Think that in this group we speak about how work in teams and the best
      >> way to communicate among us (but this still work quite well in my
      >> opinion) and our best difficulty is that many managers (normally
      >> engineering and marketing managers) and many customers don't understand
      >> the importance to communicate with us (with us in a team sense) and that
      >> they also would be part of the R&D team.
      >>
      >> As you may understand I am quite perplexed thinking that we have
      >> "communication problems" with managers and customers, two groups of
      >> extrovert people at 80% degree (do you agree?).
      >>
      >> Introverts haven't problems to work on team, they have, as every other
      >> person, problems to work in bad teams or with bad managers that ask them
      >> to work as they can't with absurd objectives and so they will became to
      >> work alone being physically part of the team but without make a
      >> contribution to the team.
      >>
      >>> Also relevant (and for full disclosure, this is the site for which I'm editor in chief these days):
      >>>
      >>> How to Succeed as an Introvert
      >>>
      >>> Extroverts love, and get, attention. But organizations miss out when they fail to cultivate the contributions of introverts, too. Susan Cain, author of Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can�t Stop Talking, uncovers why, and finds ways for �quiet geniuses� to thrive.
      >>>
      >>> http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/Feature-Articles/How-to-Succeed-as-an-Introvert/ba-p/1522
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
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      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
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      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
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      >
      >
      >
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Adam Sroka
      Or could it just be that managers tend to favor extroverted programmers they see as someone they can have a beer with over introverted programmers they see as
      Message 68 of 68 , Mar 19, 2012
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        Or could it just be that managers tend to favor extroverted programmers
        they see as someone they can have a beer with over introverted programmers
        they see as timid and geeky and since reviews are subjective anyway this
        bias tends to show up?

        That may sound a bit stereotypical, but as an extroverted programmer it's
        roughly how I feel about it with my own peers. I work hard to give the
        geeky guys equal time, but I definitely like the ones who are more like me
        better whether I want to admit it or not. Some of my best friends are
        managers.

        On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Niels Krijger <niels@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > I remember reading an article from I think an IEEE journal that showed the
        > Extrovert-Introvert dimension was significant on the dependent variable
        > "Manager-rated performance" for the *developer* role (if I recall
        > correctly the introvert-extrovert dimension was the only significant one
        > for the developer role).
        > The article's rationale was a developer is often the central actor within
        > the development process and should be able to hold one's own. Much of what
        > a developer does has consequences, the ability to voice concerns early is
        > of great value to the Manager. I recall creativity was also in the survey
        > but didn't prove significant.
        > The introvert-extrovert dimension wasn't significant for the Manager role
        > which would support some claims in this discussion at least for the manager
        > role it is not of major importance.
        >
        > I've desperately been looking for the article in question but failed
        > miserably (I didn't use it in my work afterwards).
        >
        > Regards,
        > Niels
        >
        > 2012/3/19 Niels Krijger <niels.krijger@...>
        >
        > > I remember reading an article from I think an IEEE journal that showed
        > the
        > > Extrovert-Introvert dimension was significant on the dependent variable
        > > "Manager-rated performance" for the *developer* role (if I recall
        > > correctly the introvert-extrovert dimension was the only significant one
        > > for the developer role).
        > > The article's rationale was a developer is often the central actor within
        > > the development process and should be able to hold one's own. Much of
        > what
        > > a developer does has consequences, the ability to voice concerns early is
        > > of great value to the Manager. I recall creativity was also in the survey
        > > but didn't prove significant.
        > > The introvert-extrovert dimension wasn't significant for the Manager role
        > > which would support some claims in this discussion at least for the
        > manager
        > > role it is not of major importance.
        > >
        > > I've desperately been looking for the article in question but failed
        > > miserably (I didn't use it in my work afterwards).
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > > Niels
        > >
        > >
        > > 2012/3/19 Curtis Cooley <curtis@...>
        > >
        > >> **
        >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Curtis Cooley <
        > curtis@...
        > >> >wrote:
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> > On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Acaz Souza Pereira <
        > >> acazsouza@...>wrote:
        > >> >
        > >> >> Pair Programming Considered Harmful?
        > >> >>
        > >> >>
        > http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/03/pair-programming-considered-harmful/
        > >> >>
        > >> >> Nothing ground breaking here. Executive Summary:
        > >> >
        > >> > Each team needs to find a mix of solo, pairing, and group programming
        > >> that
        > >> > meets the needs of the team and project. And, by the way, it's
        > different
        > >> > for every team.
        > >> >
        > >> > No surprises here ;)
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >> After thinking about this, the whole article is pretty much non
        > sequitor.
        > >> It's based on the premise that creativity is the most important quality
        > of
        > >> a developer when building software, yet provide no evidence or arguments
        > >> to
        > >> prove that is the case. I assert it's not top priority, which is why
        > pair
        > >> programming works. If all it took was creativity, then I would agree
        > that
        > >> PP is harmful, but it doesn't, it takes more, much more, so it's not.
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> --
        > >> --------------------------------------
        > >> Curtis Cooley
        > >> curtis@...
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


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