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Re: Relevance of XP in Modern era

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  • MarvinToll.com
    It has been a disappointment to me that Scrum has received widespread mind-share ... while XP has tended to appeal to an insular community. It reminds a bit
    Message 1 of 28 , Aug 20, 2011
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      It has been a disappointment to me that Scrum has received widespread 'mind-share'... while XP has tended to appeal to an insular community.

      It reminds a bit of the struggle professional orchestras currently endure. If they remain technically excellent but fail to appeal to a cross-section of the community funding sometimes becomes a problem.

      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello paul,
      >
      > On Aug 19, 2011, at 10:50 AM, paul wrote:
      >
      > > XP is essentially "scrum" for software projects. Its just a case of convergent evolution.
      >
      >
      > That's not remotely correct. Scrum is roughly a very small subset of XP. There is strong evidence that convergent evolution was not involved.
      >
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > I try to Zen through it and keep my voice very mellow and low.
      > Inside I am screaming and have a machine gun.
      > Yin and Yang I figure.
      > -- Tom Jeffries
    • Steven Gordon
      Naming/branding, marketing and ease of adoption are big factors in growth rate. Of course, growth rate was never a primary objective of XP. SteveG ...
      Message 2 of 28 , Aug 20, 2011
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        Naming/branding, marketing and ease of adoption are big factors in growth
        rate.

        Of course, growth rate was never a primary objective of XP.

        SteveG

        On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 7:50 AM, MarvinToll.com <MarvinToll@...>wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > It has been a disappointment to me that Scrum has received widespread
        > 'mind-share'... while XP has tended to appeal to an insular community.
        >
        > It reminds a bit of the struggle professional orchestras currently endure.
        > If they remain technically excellent but fail to appeal to a cross-section
        > of the community funding sometimes becomes a problem.
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jonathan Harley
        Understanding is a biggie too. I once had a QA Manager ask, So, all I get from this Test-Driven stuff is better quality software? I was stunned.. ...
        Message 3 of 28 , Aug 21, 2011
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          Understanding is a biggie too.

          I once had a "QA Manager" ask, "So, all I get from this Test-Driven stuff is
          better quality software?"

          I was stunned..

          On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Steven Gordon <sgordonphd@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Naming/branding, marketing and ease of adoption are big factors in growth
          > rate.
          >
          > Of course, growth rate was never a primary objective of XP.
          >
          > SteveG
          >
          > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 7:50 AM, MarvinToll.com <MarvinToll@...
          > >wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > It has been a disappointment to me that Scrum has received widespread
          > > 'mind-share'... while XP has tended to appeal to an insular community.
          > >
          > > It reminds a bit of the struggle professional orchestras currently
          > endure.
          > > If they remain technically excellent but fail to appeal to a
          > cross-section
          > > of the community funding sometimes becomes a problem.
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • RonJeffries
          Hi Jonathan, ... Did you inquire what more they were hoping for? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com I try to Zen through it and keep my voice very mellow and
          Message 4 of 28 , Aug 22, 2011
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            Hi Jonathan,

            On Aug 21, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Jonathan Harley wrote:

            > I once had a "QA Manager" ask, "So, all I get from this Test-Driven stuff is
            > better quality software?"
            >
            > I was stunned..


            Did you inquire what more they were hoping for?

            Ron Jeffries
            www.XProgramming.com
            I try to Zen through it and keep my voice very mellow and low.
            Inside I am screaming and have a machine gun.
            Yin and Yang I figure.
            -- Tom Jeffries



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jonathan Harley
            Hey Ron, I expect she was thinking along the lines of a choir of singing angels.. :-) ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 28 , Aug 22, 2011
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              Hey Ron,

              I expect she was thinking along the lines of a choir of singing angels.. :-)

              On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 9:06 AM, RonJeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Hi Jonathan,
              >
              >
              > On Aug 21, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Jonathan Harley wrote:
              >
              > > I once had a "QA Manager" ask, "So, all I get from this Test-Driven stuff
              > is
              > > better quality software?"
              > >
              > > I was stunned..
              >
              > Did you inquire what more they were hoping for?
              >
              > Ron Jeffries
              > www.XProgramming.com
              > I try to Zen through it and keep my voice very mellow and low.
              > Inside I am screaming and have a machine gun.
              > Yin and Yang I figure.
              > -- Tom Jeffries
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • JeffGrigg
              ... Write it up on a story card. We can figure out how to sing...
              Message 6 of 28 , Aug 22, 2011
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                --- Jonathan Harley <jdharley@...> wrote:
                > I expect she was thinking along the lines of a choir
                > of singing angels.. :-)

                Write it up on a story card.
                We can figure out how to sing...

                >;->
              • Tim Ottinger
                ...   Tim Ottinger http://agileinaflash.blogspot.com/ http://agileotter.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 28 , Aug 23, 2011
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                  >________________________________
                  >From: MarvinToll.com <MarvinToll@...>
                  >To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                  >Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:50 AM
                  >Subject: [XP] Re: Relevance of XP in Modern era
                  >
                  >It has been a disappointment to me that Scrum has received widespread 'mind-share'... while XP has tended to appeal to an insular community.
                  >
                  >It reminds a bit of the struggle professional orchestras currently endure.  If they remain technically excellent but fail to appeal to a cross-section of the community funding sometimes becomes a problem.
                  >
                  >I don't worry about it. After all, these days SCRUM is just the box XP comes in. If they go scrum, they'll just be that much more ready for XP in a few months.
                   
                  Tim Ottinger
                  http://agileinaflash.blogspot.com/
                  http://agileotter.blogspot.com/

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • D.André Dhondt
                  ... Hmmmm, it s not a competition--and it s not fair to call XP insular. Didn t the xUnit frameworks sweep across the whole industry? Weren t the XP founders
                  Message 8 of 28 , Aug 26, 2011
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                    On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:50 AM, MarvinToll.com <MarvinToll@...>wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    > ...Scrum has received widespread 'mind-share'... while XP has tended to
                    > appeal to an insular community.
                    >
                    Hmmmm, it's not a competition--and it's not fair to call XP insular. Didn't
                    the xUnit frameworks sweep across the whole industry? Weren't the XP
                    founders on C2, the original wiki? The ideas from there, as well as the
                    technology, have spread even beyond the industry to the mainstream masses...
                    No, XP is not insular. That's why I stay on this list--our community is
                    always bringing in new ideas to share with one another.


                    --
                    D. André Dhondt
                    mobile: 215-805-0819
                    skype: d.andre.dhondt
                    twitter: adhondt http://dhondtsayitsagile.blogspot.com/

                    Support low-cost conferences -- http://AgileTour.org/
                    If you're in the area, join Agile Philly http://www.AgilePhilly.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kevin
                    I struggle to see how a software team can be agile without adopting XP disciplines too. Kevin
                    Message 9 of 28 , Sep 30, 2011
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                      I struggle to see how a software team can be agile without adopting XP disciplines too.


                      Kevin

                      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Tim Ottinger <linux_tim@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >________________________________
                      > >From: MarvinToll.com <MarvinToll@...>
                      > >To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:50 AM
                      > >Subject: [XP] Re: Relevance of XP in Modern era
                      > >
                      > >It has been a disappointment to me that Scrum has received widespread 'mind-share'... while XP has tended to appeal to an insular community.
                      > >
                      > >It reminds a bit of the struggle professional orchestras currently endure.  If they remain technically excellent but fail to appeal to a cross-section of the community funding sometimes becomes a problem.
                      > >
                      > >I don't worry about it. After all, these days SCRUM is just the box XP comes in. If they go scrum, they'll just be that much more ready for XP in a few months.
                      >  
                      > Tim Ottinger
                      > http://agileinaflash.blogspot.com/
                      > http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
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