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Re: [XP] Agile Manifesto Team Reconvenes

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  • ronjeffriesacm@gmail.com
    It is not useful for one SLE who has never really tried it, and which consistently ignores the Manifesto s advice. Apparently science and logic are equally not
    Message 1 of 70 , Feb 11, 2011
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      It is not useful for one SLE who has never really tried it, and which consistently ignores the Manifesto's advice. Apparently science and logic are equally not useful for the SLE. I can see how your declaration could be comforting, but the conclusion is not warranted.

      In fact, one successful Agile project at any SLE disproves the conclusion.

      R

      On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:07 PM, "MarvinToll.com" <MarvinToll@...> wrote:

      > Tim... I'm ready to breathe, be, and accept that the Agile Manifesto v. 2001 is not useful for Successful Large Enterprises. Does that mean that we agree???
      >
      > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Tim Ottinger <linux_tim@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Marvin:
      > >
      > > It is easier to move a pebble than a boulder.
      > >
      > > A friend told me that he has no interest in large corporations at all, because
      > > those are places people go to die after they tire of their hearts and souls.
      > > This is not entirely unfair, and not universally true. It is also not wrong.
      > >
      > > My experience is that change and large organizations are largely incompatible.
      > > It is the stability of large companies that draws people to them. People who
      > > seek stability are less likely to adopt any new technique successfully. This is
      > > why they go from paying lip service to one technique to paying lip service to
      > > another.
      > >
      > >
      > > Agile requires companies to make a significant change. Small companies have less
      > > trouble with this than large ones, because stability and inertia are not their
      > > stock-in-trade.
      > >
      > >
      > > That being said, some companies have not conformed the life out of their people
      > > (at least not in all their divisions), and have great success going agile in
      > > specific teams or locations. I've seen cases where three buildings on one
      > > business campus go to XP in a big way, but he fourth blocks it, pretends, and
      > > internally refuse to try to change anything at all. This despite strong
      > > upper-management support.
      > >
      > >
      > > There are bastions of stability that we cannot assail. Breathe. Be. Accept.
      > >
      > > Tim Ottinger
      > > http://agileinaflash.blogspot.com/
      > > http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
      > >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kay A Pentecost
      +10,000 (and I swore I d never exaggerate again) Kay P
      Message 70 of 70 , Mar 3, 2011
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        +10,000 (and I swore I'd never exaggerate again)

        Kay P

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Pietri
        > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 12:06 PM
        > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [XP] Re: Agile Manifesto Team Reconvenes
        >
        > On 02/26/2011 03:50 AM, MarvinToll.com wrote:
        > > However, the tension arises when considering whether the 'Agile'
        > movement should stay focused on "working software" or continue down the
        > path of using "working software" as a wedge issue to promote social
        > engineering.
        > >
        > > [...]
        > >
        > > My hope for the 2011 gathering at Snow Bird was that they would stop the
        > scope creep. Let 'Agile' be about "working software" and let some other
        > "organizational anarchists" carry-on about the social re-engineering of
        > our companies.
        >
        >
        > You have this 100% backwards, MarvinToll.com.
        >
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