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Re: [XP] agile developer pay

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  • D.AndrĂ© Dhondt
    ... Find out what you re worth, in market terms, by doing a search on a salary survey site. The numbers are debatable, especially if it s self-reported income,
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 20, 2010
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      On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:17 AM, eligarepoleved <eligarepoleved@...>wrote:

      > This time I'd like to stay. Any tips on convincing the manager on helping
      > me get a raise?
      >
      Find out what you're worth, in market terms, by doing a search on a salary
      survey site. The numbers are debatable, especially if it's self-reported
      income, as opposed to employer-supplied data--but it will give you a place
      to shoot for when you talk to your boss. Asking for a raise is touchy,
      especially in a team environment--but if you're not in the right ballpark
      salary-wise, you may be feeling unfairly treated. Fix that or it's bad for
      the team too.

      You don't need to set up a will struggle. Ask lightly if your new job title
      comes with a salary review, or ask if you could do a performance review with
      the boss. Tell your boss what you're looking for--and consider other perks
      that aren't financial so you have more ways to leave happy from the
      discussion. Ask if there's any possibility to get you into the salary range
      you're shooting for, now or in the future--ask for ideas on what you might
      work on / improve to get there. Instead of a will struggle, this becomes a
      partnership. Maybe you'll get something now--maybe something for the
      future... but having a plan may be reassuring for both of you.


      --
      D. André Dhondt
      mobile: 215-805-0819
      skype: d.andre.dhondt
      twitter: adhondt http://dhondtsayitsagile.blogspot.com/

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • MarvinToll.com
      I avoid linking pay to any explicit or implicit (non-legally binding) inference for remaining with a client. I value responding to change over following a
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 21, 2010
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        I avoid linking pay to any explicit or implicit (non-legally binding) inference for remaining with a client. I value 'responding to change' over 'following a promise'.

        --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "eligarepoleved" <eligarepoleved@...> wrote:
        >
        > This time I'd like to stay. Any tips on convincing the manager on helping me get a raise?
        >
      • eligarepoleved
        So based on this single trial, I should not ask for a raise? I should just leave. I think there is a more sophisticated approach. I don t really want to
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 27, 2010
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          So based on this single trial, I should not ask for a raise? I should just leave.

          I think there is a more sophisticated approach. I don't really want to leave, I want to stay and earn the pay for the value I have provided.


          --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello, Wouter. On Wednesday, October 20, 2010, at 7:11:31 AM, you
          > wrote:
          >
          > > Additionally, if you think you're being paid under current market rate, you
          > > could tell your manager exactly what you say in your post: the usual way to
          > > get more money is to leave, and I really don't want to, so what can we do?
          >
          > Once upon a time, a developer came to me and said, in essence, that
          > if I paid him more, he would stay. I paid him more. Not much after
          > that, he left anyway.
          >
          > In this case, I experienced one-trial learning. I would not do that
          > again.
          >
          > Ron Jeffries
          > www.XProgramming.com
          > www.xprogramming.com/blog
          > The model that really matters is the one that people have in
          > their minds. All other models and documentation exist only to
          > get the right model into the right mind at the right time.
          > -- Paul Oldfield
          >
        • eligarepoleved
          Maybe I should come work in the Netherlands -- there is a serious tech leadership / managment issue in the US.
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 27, 2010
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            Maybe I should come work in the Netherlands -- there is a serious tech leadership / managment issue in the US.


            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Wouter Lagerweij <wouter@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > Apart from any agile aspects, you've been given a new role, one that (seeing
            > that there's 'lead' in the name) has some new responsibilities. Was the lack
            > of any salary increase explicit? Or was it just not talked about?
            > I have had the same situation happen to me once, where salary was not
            > discussed up-front, and simply talked to the manager involved. I pointed out
            > that they were making some new responsibilities 'official' with the new
            > role, and that it had surprised me that the salary wasn't being kept in
            > sync... That was sufficient in that case.
            > Additionally, if you think you're being paid under current market rate, you
            > could tell your manager exactly what you say in your post: the usual way to
            > get more money is to leave, and I really don't want to, so what can we do?
            >
            > I'm writing from the Netherlands, where relations with management is usually
            > quite direct and not very hierarchical, so take that into account...
            >
            > Wouter
            >
            > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 7:17 AM, eligarepoleved <eligarepoleved@...>wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > As a lead agile developer / coach, how have you negotiated a pay raise?
            > >
            > > I've recently been promoted from Sr. Software Engineer to the lead position
            > > -- but without an increase in salary -- despite successfully helping the
            > > team reach a high level on most of the agile practices.
            > >
            > > My usual practice is to leave the company and get a new job after 2-3 years
            > > with a 15% - 20% raise.
            > >
            > > This time I'd like to stay. Any tips on convincing the manager on helping
            > > me get a raise?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Ron Jeffries
            Hello, eligarepoleved. On Wednesday, October 27, 2010, at ... The guy came to me and said pay me more or I ll leave. I chose. I m suggesting that many
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 27, 2010
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              Hello, eligarepoleved. On Wednesday, October 27, 2010, at
              11:57:06 AM, you wrote:

              > So based on this single trial, I should not ask for a raise? I
              > should just leave.

              The guy came to me and said pay me more or I'll leave. I chose.

              I'm suggesting that many rational managers would do the same, and
              since your note here sounded like you might consider saying
              something like that, I thought you might value some real world
              experience. I believe that you need a more sophisticated approach.

              > I think there is a more sophisticated approach. I don't really
              > want to leave, I want to stay and earn the pay for the value I
              > have provided.

              That's good, everyone deserves to be paid fairly. How do you know
              what's fair? How might you communicate that in a non-threatening way
              to you management.

              Ron Jeffries
              www.XProgramming.com
              You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra
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