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[XP] Re: Is Kanban Agile?

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  • PAUL
    Hi Vic, I agree with everything you say. I wouldn t want to give the impression that its just a Japanese (or Chinese) phenomena though. We in the west also
    Message 1 of 232 , Oct 9, 2010
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      Hi Vic,

      I agree with everything you say. I wouldn't want to give the impression that its just a Japanese (or Chinese) phenomena though. We in the west also have a strong tradition of craftsmanship and tinkering.

      Artful Making goes into this subject very well, using examples like a 15th century suit of armour maker. With industrialisation we seemed to have lost the art of making things. Art got separated from the practice of making things.

      In the east it seems that the bond between art and making things was strong enough to survive industrialisation.

      Sticking closer to home, we only need to look to the creative professions to rediscover our own tinkering capabilities. The book draws analogies between theatre production and software development that are very powerful.

      For knowledge work, at the centre of our work system is people. People aren't machines, and creativity isn't deterministic. I believe that there is plenty of innovative and creative ability in the west, but we tend to overlook it based on a cognitive myopic view that prefers to see the world through an ordered reductionist lens.

      When we set our creative spirits free we are more then able to compete with anyone in the world. But some how we have managed to latch onto the myopic view that spirits and science don't mix :)

      Regards,

      Paul.

      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Bob Payne <bob@...> wrote:
      >
      > Vic,
      >
      > You have made my day with the phrase.
      >
      > Tinkered ... towards perfection.
      >
      > Many evolutionary biologist talk about the gentile slope of improvement (with occasional jumps) when they talk about the adaptation of a species for a particular environment.
      >
      > -bob payne
      >
      >
      > On Oct 8, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Vic Williams wrote:
      >
      > > Hi,
      > >
      > > Ok, in that way Zen and Japanese culture have a culture of persuing
      > > perfection. They have a living craft tradition where the workings, the
      > > means, the doings, embody the goal. A Japanese tea garden or a Toyota
      > > car factory is tinkered for years towards perfection.
      > >
      > > > (I (vic) wrote)
      > > >> Adaptive persistence is not linked to culture.
      > > >>
      > > >> The pattern can be combined with something like solutions focus to generate
      > > >> resilience/buoyancy.
      > > >>
      > > >> A tinkerer who creates is most often persistently adaptive. I think that pattern
      > > >> matches our innate trickster capability.
      > > >>
      > > > (you wrote)
      > > > ... needs to be a strong motivation. Toyota for example was strongly motivated by a desire to turn Japan into a world leader.
      > > >
      > > > So bringing it back to software, our cultural problem stems from insufficient desire to tackle a misaligned status quo.
      > >
      > > With kaizen, adaptive persistence, the status quo is a 'standard
      > > condition', a goal to be met and left behind.
      > >
      > > If you put a team together, isolated in shan zhai or skunkworks, so they
      > > know and feel they have a quest and they know and feel that some big
      > > org. outside doesn't like what they do, they are often quite motivated.
      > >
      > > A Marine combat team or a hospital team (Crew Resource Management stuff
      > > is used by lots of medical teams now) carries a getting it done way
      > > around in the team.
      > >
      > > The quest pulls the people into a team, with good training/conditioning
      > > they come together faster and easier.
      > >
      > > Without the quest or congruent team there are probably some status quo
      > > in the various individuals.
      > >
      > > bye,
      > >
      > > vic
      > >
      > > --
      > > Fear can hold you hostage; hope can release you. Released, fly.
      > > Vic Williams 604-657-9595 www.windwaterwine.com
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • paul
      ... Sorry thats a bit of a circular argument - the fact (probability ?) that methods don t deliver actually gives an opportunity for agile to demonstrate
      Message 232 of 232 , Oct 14, 2010
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        --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Steven Gordon <sgordonphd@...> wrote:

        > It is not like scope and time constraints at such enterprises are really
        > being met now (if so, I say they should not be adopting agile because their
        > current methods are working). So maybe the constraints are invalid.

        Sorry thats a bit of a circular argument - the fact (probability ?) that methods don't deliver actually gives an opportunity for agile to demonstrate superiority.

        >
        > Furthermore, the scope of such projects can be decomposed into smaller
        > projects. Then the coordinating effort becomes one of coordinating
        > projects, not individual developers working on the same large, unwieldy
        > project.

        Indeed, but its coordinating projects where agile is currently weak compared to coordinating individuals. Multiple projects/teams is still better under agile than one massive one - its just that we are still feeling way somewhere when applying agile at this scale.

        Paul.
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