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Re: [XP] Re: Software Craftsmanship

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  • Ron Jeffries
    Marvin, the purpose of the Agile Alliance is to promote agile, not to define it. As has been made clear, I think, your idea of defining your SLE to be agile by
    Message 1 of 370 , Sep 2, 2010
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      Marvin, the purpose of the Agile Alliance is to promote agile, not to
      define it. As has been made clear, I think, your idea of defining your
      SLE to be agile by redefining Agile will not gain traction here on the
      XP list. I am hearing your posts as rather sarcastic, as if we do not
      know what we think, or why we think it.

      Everyone here will be delighted to advise you on how to improve the
      performance of your teams, as consistently with Agile and XP as is
      possible for you and your SLE. We will do that in the light of our
      ideals as we understand them. We are not very interested in lowering
      our ideals, though most of us fall short of them often and manage to
      forgive ourselves, but without lowering the bar we are trying to jump.

      Your proposed patterns approach is a compromise with Agile values and
      principles, as we understand it and them. It is probably a good
      compromise given your situation. It is also subject to abuse, and
      while in your hands it may work well, I think it would be quite easy
      to do in a way that would militate against Agile values. As such it
      cannot be represented, IMO, as a standard Agile principle.

      If you want to work on how to succeed in your situation, consistently
      with Agile as we understand it, please continue to engage. Changing
      the definition of Agile as you propose is not on the table.

      Thanks,

      Ron

      Sent from my iPad

      On Sep 2, 2010, at 4:08 PM, "MarvinToll.com" <MarvinToll@...> wrote:




      --
      Darn. If I use gMail, I'll lose all those cool sigs. What shall I do?

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
    • Bill Caputo
      ... The problem is that it isn t just one topic - its at least 2 or 3 and as near as I can tell constitutes the entire traffic of the list right now. Also, I
      Message 370 of 370 , Sep 8, 2010
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        On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
        > Seems not reading this topic might suffice ... but to each his own
        > ... I guess.

        The problem is that it isn't just one topic - its at least 2 or 3 and
        as near as I can tell constitutes the entire traffic of the list right
        now. Also, I can't not read things, it's a medical condition or
        something...

        > I know Marvin and I am confident that he's trying to do as right a
        > thing as he can.

        I agree with that. The again, the road to hell and all that...

        > I freely grant that I cannot figure out why what we
        > are saying seems to elude him.

        I don't know either. We could ask him, I suppose. But I expect it'll
        just start the whole thing all over again.

        > I suppose we could stop trying, but
        > that seems wrong to me.

        To each his own... I guess ;->

        > I'd say that if the thread ticks you, or
        > anyone, off ... start new ones, respond to other ones, pitch in in
        > other ways.

        Well, as I said, no other threads seem to be going on right now. If I
        can think of something constructive to say, I'll start a new one.
        However, I apologize to the list for venting publicly (and so adding
        to the noise). I'll stick to signal or silence for a while.

        Best,
        Bill
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