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Re: [XP] Re: Stop crippling agile, back to basics

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  • Steven Gordon
    ... What I was trying to say was that: - Under agile, the success of the development team is the extent to which it helps the client meet its goals, even as
    Message 1 of 77 , Jun 21, 2010
      On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Chris <c-riesbeck@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > I don't know that I've seen success defined as "the extent to which the
      > planned process is followed." That's tracked but that's not the definition
      > of success. I see success defined as the project is in-spec, on-budget, and
      > on-time.
      >
      > The problem is that the project isn't the real goal. There are only two
      > real goals: the client is happy because they see important needs being met
      > in cost-effective ways, and the software house is happy because the process
      > for achieving this is sustainable for both the developers and the
      > accountants.
      >
      > Project success, meaning in-spec, on-budget and on-time, is neither
      > necessary nor sufficient for achieving those two goals. We can all think of
      > counter-examples in both directions.
      >
      > Agile differs from planned processes in resisting the intermediate project
      > success goal, focusing instead on an ongoing relationship with the client
      > that maximizes the two real business goals.
      >

      What I was trying to say was that:
      - Under agile, the success of the development team is the extent to which it
      helps the client meet its goals, even as those goals change and evolve over
      time.
      - Under "planned", a target is defined up front and success is whether or
      not the development team hits that target, regardless of whether or not that
      turns out to be the right target at the end of the project. Last century, I
      contracted to far too many organizations where management simplified this
      criteria to how faithfully their plan was followed.


      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Steven Gordon
      ... What I was trying to say was that: - Under agile, the success of the development team is the extent to which it helps the client meet its goals, even as
      Message 77 of 77 , Jun 21, 2010
        On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Chris <c-riesbeck@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > I don't know that I've seen success defined as "the extent to which the
        > planned process is followed." That's tracked but that's not the definition
        > of success. I see success defined as the project is in-spec, on-budget, and
        > on-time.
        >
        > The problem is that the project isn't the real goal. There are only two
        > real goals: the client is happy because they see important needs being met
        > in cost-effective ways, and the software house is happy because the process
        > for achieving this is sustainable for both the developers and the
        > accountants.
        >
        > Project success, meaning in-spec, on-budget and on-time, is neither
        > necessary nor sufficient for achieving those two goals. We can all think of
        > counter-examples in both directions.
        >
        > Agile differs from planned processes in resisting the intermediate project
        > success goal, focusing instead on an ongoing relationship with the client
        > that maximizes the two real business goals.
        >

        What I was trying to say was that:
        - Under agile, the success of the development team is the extent to which it
        helps the client meet its goals, even as those goals change and evolve over
        time.
        - Under "planned", a target is defined up front and success is whether or
        not the development team hits that target, regardless of whether or not that
        turns out to be the right target at the end of the project. Last century, I
        contracted to far too many organizations where management simplified this
        criteria to how faithfully their plan was followed.


        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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