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Re: [XP] Re: Shouldnt done include everything.

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  • Ron Jeffries
    Hello, Jeff. On Wednesday, June 2, 2010, at 7:30:04 PM, you ... Exploratory testing is not [just or even mostly] about finding bugs. I challenge you to bring
    Message 1 of 49 , Jun 3, 2010
      Hello, Jeff. On Wednesday, June 2, 2010, at 7:30:04 PM, you
      wrote:

      > Personally, I don't believe in "exploratory testing." If there are
      > bugs to be found, at the end of EVERY SINGLE ITERATION, then
      > that's not the best way to find them. And if there aren't, then
      > it's a waste of time. Asking the developers to do that strikes me
      > as asking them to "try harder." Or worse, to "look busy" for a
      > while, until the iteration ends.

      Exploratory testing is not [just or even mostly] about finding bugs.
      I challenge you to bring in a really good exploratory tester,
      perhaps Michael Bolton or Elisabeth Hendrickson, and see what you
      learn from what they do.

      Also, exploratory testing is not about "trying harder" or "looking
      busy".

      With the greatest respect and love, I really think you need to look
      a little more carefully at the subject.

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      www.xprogramming.com/blog
      Each of you is perfect the way you are ...
      and you can use a little improvement. -- Suzuki Roshi
    • Adam Sroka
      Hi Jeff: Are you responding to what Tim wrote below? Or to one of the earlier messages that I wrote? Anyway, thanks ;-) On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Jeff
      Message 49 of 49 , Jun 9, 2010
        Hi Jeff:

        Are you responding to what Tim wrote below? Or to one of the earlier
        messages that I wrote?

        Anyway, thanks ;-)

        On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Jeff Anderson
        <Thomasjeffreyandersontwin@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Adam
        >
        > Your description of your coding life cycle was a breath of fresh air,
        > I sometimes get so surrounded by the old schoolers that I forget how
        > profound and powerful the XP approach is.
        >
        > Bravo.
        >
        > On 6/9/10, Tim Ottinger <linux_tim@...> wrote:
        > > FWIW
        > >
        > > My current company (an awesome place) is two years into agile transition.
        > > They are still releasing by content rather than time, mostly because it
        > > hasn't sunk in to upper levels the way it has been embraced in lower levels.
        > >
        > > There is a large legacy code base still, though it is constantly being
        > > whittled down. It has less coverage than the newer code.
        > >
        > > The ideal we strive for is that someday release will be a nonevent. There
        > > are many versions of our software in git that have had a full batch of
        > > unit and automated acceptance tests. Eventually, we will have sufficient
        > > trust in them that we can release any of them at any time. That's when
        > > we have arrived.
        > >
        > > While the code base and product management haven't fully transitioned, we
        > > have a 'code freeze' (really a branchpoint, after which we continue on) and
        > > there is manual testing and exploratory testing before a release. We are
        > > not really blocked by it, and we are programming on the day of release (on
        > > the next release).
        > >
        > > But someday a release will be a total non-event. Someone will pick a release
        > > package from the CI system and run the automated deploy on it in our big
        > > SAAS farm and nobody will stay up late or worry about it. Until then, we
        > > have the ever-thinning vestiges of an earlier circumstance.
        > >
        > > Tim Ottinger
        > > http://agileinaflash.blogspot.com/
        > > http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > Sent from my mobile device
        >
        > Jeff Anderson
        >
        > http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/
        >
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