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Re: [XP] Re: Shouldnt done include everything.

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  • George Dinwiddie
    ... Doctor, it hurts when I do this! ... Sometimes that s a don t care for this stage in the application s growth. If it s important, why has it never
    Message 1 of 49 , Jun 3, 2010
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      Malapine wrote:
      > "JeffGrigg" <jeffgrigg@...> wrote:
      >> --- "JackM" <jack@> wrote:
      >>> My point being [...] there has to be no time for a tester
      >>> to do the exploratory testing.
      >> Is it really ideal to require someone else to do some of the
      >> testing for you? Why isn't it done when you're done with it?
      > How do you eliminate exploratory testing, especially if you have
      > a vague definition of Done?

      "Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"

      > (i.e. "what happens if you enter
      > Arabic text in the comments box?" when I18N was never mentioned
      > in the story

      Sometimes that's a "don't care" for this stage in the application's
      growth. If it's important, why has it never been mentioned?

      > or "let's see if this crashes on 64-bit windows"
      > when the developer only has a 32-bit machine).

      If you're targeting two different environments, shouldn't your automated
      continuous build-and-test check both environments? Why should that be
      left to exploratory testing?

      It's not that exploratory testing isn't important. It's not that it
      shouldn't be done. In fact, it's so important that it should be done
      all the time, not just at the end. And the things that it turns up,
      like the two examples you give, should often become routine tests, not
      remain "exploratory."

      - George

      * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
      Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
      Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
    • Adam Sroka
      Hi Jeff: Are you responding to what Tim wrote below? Or to one of the earlier messages that I wrote? Anyway, thanks ;-) On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Jeff
      Message 49 of 49 , Jun 9, 2010
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        Hi Jeff:

        Are you responding to what Tim wrote below? Or to one of the earlier
        messages that I wrote?

        Anyway, thanks ;-)

        On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Jeff Anderson
        <Thomasjeffreyandersontwin@...> wrote:
        > Adam
        > Your description of your coding life cycle was a breath of fresh air,
        > I sometimes get so surrounded by the old schoolers that I forget how
        > profound and powerful the XP approach is.
        > Bravo.
        > On 6/9/10, Tim Ottinger <linux_tim@...> wrote:
        > > FWIW
        > >
        > > My current company (an awesome place) is two years into agile transition.
        > > They are still releasing by content rather than time, mostly because it
        > > hasn't sunk in to upper levels the way it has been embraced in lower levels.
        > >
        > > There is a large legacy code base still, though it is constantly being
        > > whittled down. It has less coverage than the newer code.
        > >
        > > The ideal we strive for is that someday release will be a nonevent. There
        > > are many versions of our software in git that have had a full batch of
        > > unit and automated acceptance tests. Eventually, we will have sufficient
        > > trust in them that we can release any of them at any time. That's when
        > > we have arrived.
        > >
        > > While the code base and product management haven't fully transitioned, we
        > > have a 'code freeze' (really a branchpoint, after which we continue on) and
        > > there is manual testing and exploratory testing before a release. We are
        > > not really blocked by it, and we are programming on the day of release (on
        > > the next release).
        > >
        > > But someday a release will be a total non-event. Someone will pick a release
        > > package from the CI system and run the automated deploy on it in our big
        > > SAAS farm and nobody will stay up late or worry about it. Until then, we
        > > have the ever-thinning vestiges of an earlier circumstance.
        > >
        > > Tim Ottinger
        > > http://agileinaflash.blogspot.com/
        > > http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > --
        > Sent from my mobile device
        > Jeff Anderson
        > http://agileconsulting.blogspot.com/
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