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Re: "Cards" (was: summary of the discusion

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  • pncampbell99
    ... Its hard to come up with a scientific explanation but the experience of myself and others that have tried electronisising xp is that its counter
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 2, 2009
      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Sean Corfield <seancorfield@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Phlip <phlip2005@...> wrote:
      > > For example, when we say "story card", we don't mean a userstory written into a
      > > computer program with a "card" object. We mean a real, paper, 3x5 index card. A
      > > team should start by writing these cards and pinning them to a cork board. Only
      > > after trying that for a while should a team then experiment with an automated
      > > card system, such as Mingle, to determine if the card system adds any value.
      >
      > I see quite a bit of emphasis on physical cards for stories, at least
      > at first (as a learning tool to get people used to the concept).
      >
      > Can some folks talk about why putting the stories into some shared
      > data store rather on physical cards might not be advisable? What sort
      > of problems have folks run into using some simple electronic
      > representation, such as a spreadsheet or some other simple electronic
      > document / set of documents?
      > --
      > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
      > Railo Technologies US -- http://getrailo.com/
      > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
      >
      > "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
      > -- Margaret Atwood

      Its hard to come up with a scientific explanation but the experience of myself and others that have tried "electronisising" xp is that its counter productive.

      Its worth noting that the same applies to most of the xp practices. But thats the essence of xp - its a set of practices that have been evolved empirically because they simply work even though some of them seem initially illogical on some level (e.g. pair programming, test-first etc)

      My personal experience is that people build an affection for the physical cards and a board that doesn't happen with an electronic planning tool.

      Its probably possible to find "scientific" reasons why this is the case if we look hard enough (maybe the physical cards take on the properties of "anchors" in NLP ... who knows). The thing is I don't much care because I trust my own experience and that of others I respect (and that is as I said earlier is the basis of xp's evolution).
    • JackM
      Cards are especially great for co-located teams. And the benefits are huge from a group conversation purspective. They really encourage old fashioned, team
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 2, 2009
        Cards are especially great for co-located teams. And the benefits are huge from a group conversation purspective. They really encourage old fashioned, team work, communication and collaboration.

        However, when teams are not co-located especially when they're at long distances like off shore, it makes it really hard to manage that way.

        Additionally if you have long backlogs, with lot's of stories (which is a problem in and of itself) it's hard to keep track of things in a card deck, search, sort etc.

        But if you can go the tactile approach, that's definitely been shown to be highly effective and that's why so manny (if not all) coaches recommend that route.

        Jack
        www.agilebuddy.com
        twitter.com/agilebuddy
        blog.agilebuddy.com

        --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "pncampbell99" <yahoo@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Sean Corfield <seancorfield@> wrote:
        > >
        > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 3:31 AM, Phlip <phlip2005@> wrote:
        > > > For example, when we say "story card", we don't mean a userstory written into a
        > > > computer program with a "card" object. We mean a real, paper, 3x5 index card. A
        > > > team should start by writing these cards and pinning them to a cork board. Only
        > > > after trying that for a while should a team then experiment with an automated
        > > > card system, such as Mingle, to determine if the card system adds any value.
        > >
        > > I see quite a bit of emphasis on physical cards for stories, at least
        > > at first (as a learning tool to get people used to the concept).
        > >
        > > Can some folks talk about why putting the stories into some shared
        > > data store rather on physical cards might not be advisable? What sort
        > > of problems have folks run into using some simple electronic
        > > representation, such as a spreadsheet or some other simple electronic
        > > document / set of documents?
        > > --
        > > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
        > > Railo Technologies US -- http://getrailo.com/
        > > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
        > >
        > > "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
        > > -- Margaret Atwood
        >
        > Its hard to come up with a scientific explanation but the experience of myself and others that have tried "electronisising" xp is that its counter productive.
        >
        > Its worth noting that the same applies to most of the xp practices. But thats the essence of xp - its a set of practices that have been evolved empirically because they simply work even though some of them seem initially illogical on some level (e.g. pair programming, test-first etc)
        >
        > My personal experience is that people build an affection for the physical cards and a board that doesn't happen with an electronic planning tool.
        >
        > Its probably possible to find "scientific" reasons why this is the case if we look hard enough (maybe the physical cards take on the properties of "anchors" in NLP ... who knows). The thing is I don't much care because I trust my own experience and that of others I respect (and that is as I said earlier is the basis of xp's evolution).
        >
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