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Re: [XP] Re: iterations vs continuous flow and kanban ...

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  • Joshua Kerievsky
    ... Aren t you a CST Ron and doesn t that help you distinguish and market yourself? Is this the pot calling the kettle black? I m on this list and Kanbandev
    Message 1 of 187 , Aug 3, 2009
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      On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:

      > On the one hand, there is at least one consulting organization that
      > has rather obviously decided to trash existing practice as both
      > based on incorrect theory as well as rejecting theory altogether, as
      > well as relying way too much on actually doing things rather than
      > understanding the theory behind things. This one is somewhat
      > pathetic, but it's fair to say that in the desire to distinguish
      > one's offering from the next person, you've got to do something. One
      > possibility is to be the person who has all the new stuff: Lean,
      > Kanban, Nuclear Adaptive Psychobabble, whatever. I guess there's a
      > good chance this works better than being the umteenth "Agile" person
      > on the block.


      Aren't you a CST Ron and doesn't that help you distinguish and market
      yourself? Is this the pot calling the kettle black?

      I'm on this list and Kanbandev and while I'm usually too busy to
      participate, I do read the emails. I don't think the company you're
      describing is trashing existing practice. They have found what they think
      is a language and theory in Lean/Kanban that is helping them make sense of
      things, which in turn is helping their company help others.


      > On the other hand, I think there is great value in viewing the
      > universe through different lenses, and there is absolutely no reason
      > to imagine that XP or Scrum or "Agile" are at the absolute pinnacle
      > of meaning and understanding.


      Kanban has opened up a lot of useful ideas. Also, as Karl mentioned, we
      don't have books on Kanban yet -- they are coming. In my own experience
      (doing something like Kanban for 2+ years now), there's a lot of great stuff
      in there. David Andersen is actively working on a book and based on what
      I've seen in his tutorials, I think it will have a big impact.


      > That's why I brought the kanban topic
      > over here, where we are not afraid to talk about things, and where
      > we trash all ideas equally, including our own.


      This is a great list, probably my favorite. Kanbandev is newer and has
      great people on it. I think it is shaping up to be a great list. I don't
      care for moderation unless it is to avoid spam or totally oddball posts.


      > I think we can probably learn some things from looking from all
      > sides.


      Agreed.

      --
      best regards,
      jk

      Industrial Logic, Inc.
      Joshua Kerievsky
      Founder, Extreme Programmer & Coach
      http://industriallogic.com
      866-540-8336 (toll free)
      510-540-8336 (phone)
      Berkeley, California

      How good are you at TDD? We automatically analyze your Java/C++ TDD:
      http://industriallogic.com/elearning


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello, davenicolette. On Monday, August 10, 2009, at 7:52:58 PM, ... Yep! Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com www.xprogramming.com/blog Accroche toi a ton reve.
      Message 187 of 187 , Aug 10, 2009
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        Hello, davenicolette. On Monday, August 10, 2009, at 7:52:58 PM,
        you wrote:

        >> Seems to me this is a quite valid thing to do, but that it's still
        >> managing scope.

        > That's fine. I don't want to get into a circular debate about
        > words. The key thing IMO is that we understand how to work with
        > that type of trade-off to the customer's benefit.

        Yep!

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        www.xprogramming.com/blog
        Accroche toi a ton reve. --ELO
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