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[XP] Re: iterations vs kanban Value Stream

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  • Jeff Grigg
    ... That s good, as far as it goes: One can optimize a multi-stage process to make it more efficient. But I see that as a limitation of kanban, not an
    Message 1 of 187 , Aug 2, 2009
      --- "Karl Scotland" <kjscotland@...> wrote:
      > Yes. And we always go on to talk about how a Kanban System
      > visualises a value stream, rather than defines it, and how
      > visualising that value stream helps the team improve it,
      > and how improving the value stream might reduce the number
      > of stages and help the team to a more collaborative, multi-
      > skilled process.

      That's good, as far as it goes: One can optimize a multi-stage process to make it more efficient. But I see that as a limitation of kanban, not an advantage. And in extreme cases I've seen it as more of a problem than a solution. (Extreme Programming is intentionally an extreme case. ;-)

      You see, with close customer collaboration, Test-Driven Development, and automated acceptance testing, I can eliminate *ALL* stages: That is, we can get remarkably close to the point where the customer says, "I want X." and then we build and hand it to them. One step -- without queuing anything or handing anything off to anyone else. Everything that needs to happen can happen right there in the same room, done by the people in the room right there with the customer.

      Why would I want to make that worse by introducing unnecessary queues?

      I think kanban is a great way to manage queues of work. I just don't want or need queues of work: I see them as waste.
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello, davenicolette. On Monday, August 10, 2009, at 7:52:58 PM, ... Yep! Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com www.xprogramming.com/blog Accroche toi a ton reve.
      Message 187 of 187 , Aug 10, 2009
        Hello, davenicolette. On Monday, August 10, 2009, at 7:52:58 PM,
        you wrote:

        >> Seems to me this is a quite valid thing to do, but that it's still
        >> managing scope.

        > That's fine. I don't want to get into a circular debate about
        > words. The key thing IMO is that we understand how to work with
        > that type of trade-off to the customer's benefit.

        Yep!

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        www.xprogramming.com/blog
        Accroche toi a ton reve. --ELO
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