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Re: [XP] Resources on Self-Organization & Self-Organizing Teams (was Re: Agile Self-Organization versus Lean Leadership)

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  • George Dinwiddie
    ... Andre, I ve never found the Tuckman model very helpful for enabling teams. Just because they re storming, it doesn t mean they ll proceed to norming. You
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 3, 2009
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      D. André Dhondt wrote:
      > I've been reading a lot on this subject lately, and wanted to mention one of
      > the presuppositions that I missed when I first started reading some of the
      > articles on the subject: to be self-organizing, a team needs to be past the
      > Storming phase in Tuckman's Forming, Storming, Norming, Performing model.
      > I'd love to know how to help a team go through these phases quickly... but
      > it seems to mostly be related to individual desires to open up, or not.

      Andre, I've never found the Tuckman model very helpful for enabling
      teams. Just because they're storming, it doesn't mean they'll proceed
      to norming. You might look at the Drexler-Sibbet Team Performance
      Model. I was first introduced to this by Esther Derby and wrote
      http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2008/12/03/aye-2008-the-magic-chemistry-of-teams/
      on it.

      - George

      --
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
      Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
      Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    • D. André Dhondt
      ... I agree. Apparently only 6% of teams are currently in a performing status (
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 8, 2009
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        George wrote:
        >Just because they're storming, it doesn't mean they'll proceed to norming

        I agree. Apparently only 6% of teams are currently in a performing status (
        http://www.stevedenning.com/High-Performance-Teams/creating-high-performance-teams.aspx
        ).

        Still, I don't see how this detracts from Tuckman's model. On a cursory
        analysis, I see a lot of similarities between Tuckman's model and the
        Drexler-Sibbet model, but I suppose that breaking out Forming into
        Orientation and Goal Clarification, then Storming into and Commitment and
        Trust, etc., helps clarify how to direct a team through the phases. Is
        there something else about Drexler-Sibbler that is significant for you?

        In a larger sense, do you think I'm off-base in asserting the following?

        You can't do effective teamwork without a team that has at least reached the
        norming (Tuckman) / implementing (Drexler-Sibbler) phase.

        --
        D. André Dhondt


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Chris Wheeler
        On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:19 AM, D. André Dhondt ... into 94% of teams are not performing . If that were the case, 94% of police officers, firefighters,
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 8, 2009
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          On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:19 AM, D. André Dhondt
          <d.andre.dhondt@...>wrote:

          > George wrote:
          > >Just because they're storming, it doesn't mean they'll proceed to norming
          >
          > I agree. Apparently only 6% of teams are currently in a performing status
          > (
          >
          > http://www.stevedenning.com/High-Performance-Teams/creating-high-performance-teams.aspx
          > ).
          >
          > The (unsupported)94% of people who don't love their jobs doesn't translate
          into 94% of teams are not 'performing'. If that were the case, 94% of police
          officers, firefighters, doctors, nurses, engineers, judges, actors, etc.
          would not be 'performing'.

          Can anyone honestly claim this to be the truth?

          Chris.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • D. André Dhondt
          On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Chris Wheeler
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 8, 2009
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            On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Chris Wheeler <christopher.wheeler@...
            > wrote:>Can anyone honestly claim this to be the truth?
            Wow... I just re-read that quote... I had misremembered what it was about,
            and as you imply, it doesn't substantiate my argument at all. So no, I
            don't think it makes sense--in life-critical lines of work I think group
            members will quickly move to a performing team. Sorry!

            OK, so back to my unanswered question. Do you think a team needs to gel/get
            to norming/get to implementing before you can expect it to do all the XP
            practices?


            --
            D. André Dhondt


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • George Dinwiddie
            ... I don t think you re off-base with that assertion. My difficulty with the Tuckman model is that, as a team facilitator, I find little guidance in to to
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 8, 2009
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              D. André Dhondt wrote:
              > George wrote:
              >> Just because they're storming, it doesn't mean they'll proceed to norming
              >
              > I agree. Apparently only 6% of teams are currently in a performing status (
              > http://www.stevedenning.com/High-Performance-Teams/creating-high-performance-teams.aspx
              > ).
              >
              > Still, I don't see how this detracts from Tuckman's model. On a cursory
              > analysis, I see a lot of similarities between Tuckman's model and the
              > Drexler-Sibbet model, but I suppose that breaking out Forming into
              > Orientation and Goal Clarification, then Storming into and Commitment and
              > Trust, etc., helps clarify how to direct a team through the phases. Is
              > there something else about Drexler-Sibbler that is significant for you?
              >
              > In a larger sense, do you think I'm off-base in asserting the following?
              >
              > You can't do effective teamwork without a team that has at least reached the
              > norming (Tuckman) / implementing (Drexler-Sibbler) phase.

              I don't think you're off-base with that assertion.

              My difficulty with the Tuckman model is that, as a team facilitator, I
              find little guidance in to to help me help the team reach the
              norming/implementing stage. (And I've read Bruce Tuckman's
              Developmental Sequence in Small Groups.)

              I get more such guidance looking at the picture
              (http://hp-strategies.com/images/tpm.jpg) of the Drexler-Sibbet TPM.
              There are clues as to what you might see if the questions of a stage are
              resolved or unresolved. You can also work backwards from your
              observations to make inferences about the completeness of the stages.

              This is an example of how Drexler-Sibbet provides me with more analysis
              and thinking tools than does Tuckman. And I've barely scratched the
              surface with Drexler-Sibbet.

              - George

              --
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
              Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
              Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            • D. André Dhondt
              Thanks, George. I understand better now--in fact I think that I was working around the limitations of the normal Tuckman model by using a cheat sheet of
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 8, 2009
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                Thanks, George. I understand better now--in fact I think that I was working
                around the limitations of the normal Tuckman model by using a cheat sheet of
                stage-appropriate goals, like the already complete Drexler-Sibbler picture
                you cite below. I'll print that one out now ;)
                On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:33 PM, George Dinwiddie <lists@...>wrote:

                >
                >
                > D. André Dhondt wrote:
                > > George wrote:
                > >> Just because they're storming, it doesn't mean they'll proceed to
                > norming
                > >
                > > I agree. Apparently only 6% of teams are currently in a performing status
                > (
                > >
                > http://www.stevedenning.com/High-Performance-Teams/creating-high-performance-teams.aspx
                > > ).
                > >
                > > Still, I don't see how this detracts from Tuckman's model. On a cursory
                > > analysis, I see a lot of similarities between Tuckman's model and the
                > > Drexler-Sibbet model, but I suppose that breaking out Forming into
                > > Orientation and Goal Clarification, then Storming into and Commitment and
                > > Trust, etc., helps clarify how to direct a team through the phases. Is
                > > there something else about Drexler-Sibbler that is significant for you?
                > >
                > > In a larger sense, do you think I'm off-base in asserting the following?
                > >
                > > You can't do effective teamwork without a team that has at least reached
                > the
                > > norming (Tuckman) / implementing (Drexler-Sibbler) phase.
                >
                > I don't think you're off-base with that assertion.
                >
                > My difficulty with the Tuckman model is that, as a team facilitator, I
                > find little guidance in to to help me help the team reach the
                > norming/implementing stage. (And I've read Bruce Tuckman's
                > Developmental Sequence in Small Groups.)
                >
                > I get more such guidance looking at the picture
                > (http://hp-strategies.com/images/tpm.jpg) of the Drexler-Sibbet TPM.
                > There are clues as to what you might see if the questions of a stage are
                > resolved or unresolved. You can also work backwards from your
                > observations to make inferences about the completeness of the stages.
                >
                > This is an example of how Drexler-Sibbet provides me with more analysis
                > and thinking tools than does Tuckman. And I've barely scratched the
                > surface with Drexler-Sibbet.
                >
                > - George
                >
                > --
                > ----------------------------------------------------------
                > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
                > Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
                > Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
                > ----------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >
                >



                --
                D. André Dhondt
                mobile: 001 33 671 034 984


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