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Re: [XP] Kent Beck says write tests when they make sense (was Kent Beck says TDD is optional for short-haul work)

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... Um, as I understand it, he thoughtfully skipped one test ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com www.xprogramming.com/blog Do I contradict myself? Very well
    Message 1 of 51 , May 18, 2009
      Hello, Phil. On Monday, May 18, 2009, at 8:13:17 PM, you wrote:

      > it sounds like you are avoiding the problem of writing the wrong
      > code the right way. In a community that is concerned about the problem of
      > writing the right code the wrong way, your solution is somewhat alarming. We
      > know that you eventually want your surviving code to be production quality.
      > You make it sound like, right now, you are cranking out untested legacy code
      > for your new enterprise faster than a grad school dropout.

      Um, as I understand it, he thoughtfully skipped one test ...

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      www.xprogramming.com/blog
      Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself.
      (I am large, I contain multitudes.) --Walt Whitman
    • Adam Sroka
      ... Great point. I found myself listening to this thread and wondering what I would tell someone who was still learning TDD about this. The answer is, I would
      Message 51 of 51 , May 19, 2009
        On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Laurent Bossavit <laurent@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >> If I don't stick with test first, then I rarely do test after. So,
        >> it's
        >> important to me to have some clear guidelines on when it's ok to
        >> skip the
        >> test, or to stay more binary on it and say it's only ok for a spike!
        >
        > Lawyers call this a "bright line", a rule that is more clearly and
        > succinctly expressed than other rules of the same family and which is
        > therefore easier to follow and enforce.
        >

        Great point. I found myself listening to this thread and wondering
        what I would tell someone who was still learning TDD about this. The
        answer is, I would tell them to keep trying to write the test first no
        matter how hard or time consuming it seemed.

        As general advice, it is a bad idea to try to disarm a nuclear bomb
        with a paperclip and chewing gum. However, when MacGyver does it I am
        satisfied that he considered the options available and made an
        educated decision.

        I am sure that Kent did the right thing for his situation based on his
        knowledge, experience, and business acumen. I don't have enough
        information to know if I would have done the same thing he did. I do
        know that I have never encountered a situation where I thought a team
        was writing too many tests, but I have encountered many situations
        where teams or individuals were writing too few tests. So, as general
        advice I would say to write the test.
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