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Re: [XP] Re: Certification on eXtreme Programming

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  • Larry Brunelle
    ... o As a developer, I d want some advantage to accrue to me for having certification. That advantage could be one of money, a ready market for my
    Message 1 of 94 , May 4, 2009
      Ron Jeffries wrote:
      > Hello, Larry. On Monday, May 4, 2009, at 7:56:45 AM, you wrote:
      >>> And this is less mindlessly-formulaic than trusting /only/ certified
      >>> people because: [fill in the blank]
      >> Hm, here is a significant point: who CARES whether this
      >> is mindlessly-formulaic? Olof has stated well a position
      >> held by many in the industry who might have something to
      >> say about hiring. That is a fact of business with which
      >> we all have to live (today). So, without widespread confidence
      >> in some certification, why in holy heck would a developer
      >> want to spend the time, money and effort to obtain it?
      > What would it take to create a certification program in which there
      > could be justified widespread confidence?

      o As a developer, I'd want some advantage to accrue to me
      for having <whatever> certification. That advantage
      could be one of money, a ready market for my services,
      a choice of "pleasant" positions (construed differently
      among developers, I am sure), etc., but in any case
      something worth having that I can't obtain readily
      otherwise. That means it would have to provide me
      a predictable benefit.

      o The employer/customer probably (if reasonable) wants
      predictive validity for some ability(ies) that can be
      turned into money.

      o The potentially-certified persons and their potential employers
      would have to agree on what were the significant dimensions
      of certification.

      o Some certifier must exist in whom both roles would be able
      to place trust.

      o Some source of funds must exist for the certification
      development, administration, and maintenance.

      o Government compulsion could advance the implementation
      of certification, but history in other domains suggests
      it is more likely to diminish than add value.
    • Adrian Howard
      ... Not sure that it is mind - I m often wrong :) Adrian
      Message 94 of 94 , May 8, 2009
        On 6 May 2009, at 04:08, Ron Jeffries wrote:

        > Hello, Adrian. On Tuesday, May 5, 2009, at 11:37:58 AM, you wrote:
        >> That said, my perception is that the odds of getting a bad candidate
        >> at interview increase if they have certifications listed on their
        >> resume.
        >> My post hoc rationalisation for this experiences is not so much
        >> related to the certification programme itself (although many of them
        >> have severe problems), but to the sort of folk they can attract.
        >> The less creative, by-the-book, list-following developer seems to see
        >> certification programmes as a way to prove their competence. The more
        >> creative, problem-oriented, passionate developers seem to spend their
        >> free chunk of career development time building something cool, or
        >> learning erlang, or contributing to open source projects or...
        > Interesting model. I can see how it might be.

        Not sure that it is mind - I'm often wrong :)

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