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Re: [XP] Re: Certification on eXtreme Programming

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  • Olof Bjarnason
    ... Just look at other proffesions: * The certification should be done by an independant authority (governmental or market-spanning organisation), not by
    Message 1 of 94 , May 4 5:33 AM
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      2009/5/4 Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>:
      >
      >
      > Hello, Larry. On Monday, May 4, 2009, at 7:56:45 AM, you wrote:
      >
      >>> And this is less mindlessly-formulaic than trusting /only/ certified
      >>> people because: [fill in the blank]
      >
      >> Hm, here is a significant point: who CARES whether this
      >> is mindlessly-formulaic? Olof has stated well a position
      >> held by many in the industry who might have something to
      >> say about hiring. That is a fact of business with which
      >> we all have to live (today). So, without widespread confidence
      >> in some certification, why in holy heck would a developer
      >> want to spend the time, money and effort to obtain it?
      >
      > What would it take to create a certification program in which there
      > could be justified widespread confidence?

      Just look at other proffesions:

      * The certification should be done by an "independant" authority
      (governmental or market-spanning organisation), not by companies like
      IBM, Microsoft, SUN
      * Compare with a veterinary/doctoral/pilot license for instance, there
      is an "institution" that graduates and gives away licenses.
      * Not everybody and anybody is granted a license just by paying enough
      dough. Just the ones that are good/fluent enough.
      * The certification should require practical, hands-on programming,
      being judged by several experienced developers. Compare with a doctors
      exam, where many doctors make a statement/judgement about the student.

      Now I don't think the s/w industry is anywhere near that, and won't be
      anytime soon (we're all to busy making money).

      I think looking at the individual developers "past project portfolio"
      is what can be practically done instead.
      (unless you have a lot of time to spend pair-programming with him/her;
      that would be a better measure of course, consider yourself happy if
      your company allows you to spend hiring-time doing this to 10
      candidates)

      >
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > www.xprogramming.com/blog
      > How do I know what I think until I hear what I say? -- E M Forster
      >
      >



      --
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    • Adrian Howard
      ... Not sure that it is mind - I m often wrong :) Adrian
      Message 94 of 94 , May 8 7:55 AM
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        On 6 May 2009, at 04:08, Ron Jeffries wrote:

        > Hello, Adrian. On Tuesday, May 5, 2009, at 11:37:58 AM, you wrote:
        >
        >> That said, my perception is that the odds of getting a bad candidate
        >> at interview increase if they have certifications listed on their
        >> resume.
        >
        >> My post hoc rationalisation for this experiences is not so much
        >> related to the certification programme itself (although many of them
        >> have severe problems), but to the sort of folk they can attract.
        >
        >> The less creative, by-the-book, list-following developer seems to see
        >> certification programmes as a way to prove their competence. The more
        >> creative, problem-oriented, passionate developers seem to spend their
        >> free chunk of career development time building something cool, or
        >> learning erlang, or contributing to open source projects or...
        >
        > Interesting model. I can see how it might be.

        Not sure that it is mind - I'm often wrong :)

        Adrian
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