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Re: [XP] Re: Certification on eXtreme Programming

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  • Ron Jeffries
    Hello, Larry. I m pretty sure I mentioned something about scaling in my posting ... ... This works for a qualified individual hiring another potentially
    Message 1 of 94 , May 3, 2009
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      Hello, Larry.

      I'm pretty sure I mentioned something about scaling in my posting

      On Sunday, May 3, 2009, at 3:25:13 PM, you wrote:

      >> What kind of social or other process could there be that would
      >> address the legitimate need to know whether someone was fair, good,
      >> or excellent at something. Or whether we ourselves were?

      > Several approaches already in use . . .
      > 1. You already know the person from having worked
      > with him/her.
      > 2. Someone whose judgment has your implicit confidence
      > has worked with him/her and shares that knowledge.
      > 3. (Caveat: Depending on circumstances, this one can be
      > ethically questionable - but it's done.) You review
      > the person's resume for previous employment, and ask
      > around among present staff for former coworkers who
      > may be able to provide an opinion.
      > 4. The "audition".
      > 5. The "extended audition", AKA contract-to-maybe-hire.
      > 6. You are good enough at interviewing to discern who
      > has what you need, who has everything BUT what you
      > need, and who is simply very, very good at
      > interviewing.

      This works for a qualified individual hiring another potentially
      qualified individual. My question has to do with the broader
      question of how we might screen our own skills, or those of others.

      > It might be relevant to discuss what is the "something".
      > Is it a skill? Or is it the ability to acquire the
      > necessary skill? Is the most relevant skill, say, a
      > programming language? Or is it the skill to recognize
      > unnecessary complexity and to know what to do about it?
      > Or maybe even the skill to share skills with others
      > effectively?

      I would think there would be many skills of interest to hiring
      entities, including but not limited to things like:

      Test-Driven Development
      Exploratory Testing
      Design (itself a big topic)

      There might be topics like Story Splitting, simple design, and on
      and on.

      I would suggest that we could grab a group of people, assess some
      others, and pretty much agree on what things they were good at, and
      what they were not ... at least on some dimensions.

      If we couldn't ... then there is no hope for any kind of
      certification. But if we could ... that suggest to me that there is
      something there to be measured.

      How could we do that in ways we could live with?

      Ron Jeffries
      I could be wrong. I frequently am.
    • Adrian Howard
      ... Not sure that it is mind - I m often wrong :) Adrian
      Message 94 of 94 , May 8, 2009
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        On 6 May 2009, at 04:08, Ron Jeffries wrote:

        > Hello, Adrian. On Tuesday, May 5, 2009, at 11:37:58 AM, you wrote:
        >> That said, my perception is that the odds of getting a bad candidate
        >> at interview increase if they have certifications listed on their
        >> resume.
        >> My post hoc rationalisation for this experiences is not so much
        >> related to the certification programme itself (although many of them
        >> have severe problems), but to the sort of folk they can attract.
        >> The less creative, by-the-book, list-following developer seems to see
        >> certification programmes as a way to prove their competence. The more
        >> creative, problem-oriented, passionate developers seem to spend their
        >> free chunk of career development time building something cool, or
        >> learning erlang, or contributing to open source projects or...
        > Interesting model. I can see how it might be.

        Not sure that it is mind - I'm often wrong :)

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