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Re: [XP] Re: Certification on eXtreme Programming

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... Hmm, perhaps. I wonder whether all those things are inherent. It seems to me that the interview is certainly the way to know the most about people. Still,
    Message 1 of 94 , May 3, 2009
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      Hello, Phlip. On Sunday, May 3, 2009, at 10:21:40 AM, you wrote:

      > A certification would reward those who are good at gaming certifications,
      > and punish those who are better at their aspect of Agile, and who should be
      > hired instead.

      > (Certification is also a huge marketing gimmick for big corporations, like
      > Oracle/Sun, MS, or RedHat...)

      > All the problems with certification can be summed up in one question: If you
      > find yourself _de_certified, for whatever reason, to whom do you appeal?
      > Certification creates three social castes - the untouchable uncertified, the
      > ranks of the certified, and the privileged elite who have the power to
      > de-certify anyone who questions their authority.

      Hmm, perhaps. I wonder whether all those things are inherent. It
      seems to me that the interview is certainly the way to know the most
      about people. Still, it would be good to know in some concrete way
      whether someone has this or that skill.

      What kind of social or other process could there be that would
      address the legitimate need to know whether someone was fair, good,
      or excellent at something. Or whether we ourselves were?

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      www.xprogramming.com/blog
      It's easy to have a complicated idea.
      It's very very hard to have a simple idea.
      -- Carver Mead
    • Adrian Howard
      ... Not sure that it is mind - I m often wrong :) Adrian
      Message 94 of 94 , May 8, 2009
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        On 6 May 2009, at 04:08, Ron Jeffries wrote:

        > Hello, Adrian. On Tuesday, May 5, 2009, at 11:37:58 AM, you wrote:
        >
        >> That said, my perception is that the odds of getting a bad candidate
        >> at interview increase if they have certifications listed on their
        >> resume.
        >
        >> My post hoc rationalisation for this experiences is not so much
        >> related to the certification programme itself (although many of them
        >> have severe problems), but to the sort of folk they can attract.
        >
        >> The less creative, by-the-book, list-following developer seems to see
        >> certification programmes as a way to prove their competence. The more
        >> creative, problem-oriented, passionate developers seem to spend their
        >> free chunk of career development time building something cool, or
        >> learning erlang, or contributing to open source projects or...
        >
        > Interesting model. I can see how it might be.

        Not sure that it is mind - I'm often wrong :)

        Adrian
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