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  • Justin Daubenmire
    All, I finished Ron s book - extreme programming installed - last evening. I read 30x chapters in a day. Ron says I finished it that quickly because I didn t
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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      All,

      I finished Ron's book - extreme programming installed - last evening. I read 30x chapters in a day. Ron says I finished it that quickly because I didn't have to look at the pictures *laugh* - I couldn't agree more!

      Anyhow, are there any other recommended xp books I should red?

      Thanks!


      Regards,
      Justin


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Adam Sroka
      ... 1) The White Book (assuming you haven t already) - http://my.safaribooksonline.com/0321278658 2) TDD (as someone else recommended) -
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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        On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Justin Daubenmire <jdaubenm@...> wrote:
        > All,
        >
        > I finished Ron's book - extreme programming installed - last evening. I read
        > 30x chapters in a day. Ron says I finished it that quickly because I didn't
        > have to look at the pictures *laugh* - I couldn't agree more!
        >
        > Anyhow, are there any other recommended xp books I should red?
        >

        1) The "White Book" (assuming you haven't already) -
        http://my.safaribooksonline.com/0321278658

        2) TDD (as someone else recommended) -
        http://my.safaribooksonline.com/0321146530

        3) James Shore's the Art of Agile Development (recent, and contains a
        lot of accumulated knowledge) -
        http://my.safaribooksonline.com/9780596527679

        4) Any of the Lean Software Development books by Tom and Mary
        Poppendieck - http://my.safaribooksonline.com/0321150783 and
        http://my.safaribooksonline.com/0321437381

        4 is not about XP per se, but they are useful for at least the
        following reasons: They focus more on values/mindset than mechanics;
        they have had a strong influence on XP over the last decade; they give
        you a good perspective on why we do things, and how to adapt the
        process to your own needs.

        P.S. Safari rules!!!
      • Chet Hendrickson
        Hello Justin, Hey!! ... -- Best regards, Chet Hendrickson mailto:lists@hendricksonxp.com Check out our upcoming CSM Plus courses @
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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          Hello Justin,

          Hey!!

          Sunday, April 5, 2009, 7:13:09 PM, you wrote:

          > All,

          > I finished Ron's book - extreme programming installed -


          > Regards,
          > Justin


          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          --
          Best regards,
          Chet Hendrickson mailto:lists@...
          Check out our upcoming CSM Plus courses @
          http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=28
        • Phlip
          ... Oh, you are right, Chet! Adam completely overlooked /Refactoring/ and /Refactoring to Patterns/. Forget the high-level team and consultant stuff! Just
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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            Chet Hendrickson wrote:
            > Hello Justin,
            >
            > Hey!!

            Oh, you are right, Chet! Adam completely overlooked /Refactoring/ and
            /Refactoring to Patterns/.

            Forget the high-level team and consultant stuff! Just pair, TDD, refactor, and
            integrate...
          • Adam Sroka
            ... No, I didn t overlook them. I have already made the observation that Justin was asking a lot of questions about mechanics and needed to focus on the
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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              On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Phlip <phlip2005@...> wrote:
              > Chet Hendrickson wrote:
              >> Hello Justin,
              >>
              >> Hey!!
              >
              > Oh, you are right, Chet! Adam completely overlooked /Refactoring/ and
              > /Refactoring to Patterns/.


              No, I didn't overlook them. I have already made the observation that
              Justin was asking a lot of questions about mechanics and needed to
              focus on the values. I could be wrong about that, but my
              recommendations come from that idea.

              I also recommended Kent Beck's TDD book which does discuss refactoring
              in context.

              I would specifically *not* recommend Refactoring to Patterns until
              they are already doing TDD and pairing successfully. There is an
              inherent risk of using that material to justify over-design. I
              wouldn't recommend Evans' DDD book for the same reason, but he has
              already gone there apparently.

              Refactoring and the Refactoring Workbook would be good additions to my
              list. For a little more money Industrial Logic's Refactoring e-course
              would be an excellent idea, and it covers the patterns stuff, but I
              have no knowledge of how accessible it is.

              Also, I would argue that it is more important that the Whole Team
              learn something like Refactoring together. I wouldn't recommend that
              he try to learn it on his own and then sell it to the team. That
              rarely works, IME.

              > Forget the high-level team and consultant stuff! Just pair, TDD, refactor, and
              > integrate...
              >

              I agree that he should practice pairing, TDD, refactoring, etc. I
              disagree fundamentally with the first part. Understanding why we do
              those things, and when, is just as important as how.
            • Justin Daubenmire
              ... From: Phlip Oh, you are right, Chet! Adam completely overlooked /Refactoring/ and /Refactoring to Patterns/. Chet, did you write a
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Phlip" <phlip2005@...>
                Oh, you are right, Chet! Adam completely overlooked /Refactoring/ and
                /Refactoring to Patterns/.

                Chet, did you write a few books too? I wasn't sure what your initial Hey!!
                post to me was referring to - please let me know/clarify.

                Thanks!

                Regards,
                Justin
              • Adam Sroka
                ... I have no idea what Chet said. All that I got was: Hello Justin, Hey!! ... Most likely he sent his message using HTML and Yahoo! stripped all the content
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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                  On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Justin Daubenmire <jdaubenm@...> wrote:
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Phlip" <phlip2005@...>
                  > Oh, you are right, Chet! Adam completely overlooked /Refactoring/ and
                  > /Refactoring to Patterns/.
                  >
                  > Chet, did you write a few books too? I wasn't sure what your initial Hey!!
                  > post to me was referring to - please let me know/clarify.
                  >

                  I have no idea what Chet said. All that I got was:

                  "Hello Justin,

                  Hey!!

                  Sunday, April 5, 2009, 7:13:09 PM, you wrote:

                  > All,

                  > I finished Ron's book - extreme programming installed -


                  > Regards,
                  > Justin


                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]"

                  Most likely he sent his message using HTML and Yahoo! stripped all the
                  content out.
                • Craig Davidson
                  Chet wrote XPInstalled book too. 2009/4/6 Adam Sroka ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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                    Chet wrote XPInstalled book too.

                    2009/4/6 Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...>

                    > On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Justin Daubenmire <jdaubenm@...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "Phlip" <phlip2005@...>
                    > > Oh, you are right, Chet! Adam completely overlooked /Refactoring/ and
                    > > /Refactoring to Patterns/.
                    > >
                    > > Chet, did you write a few books too? I wasn't sure what your initial
                    > Hey!!
                    > > post to me was referring to - please let me know/clarify.
                    > >
                    >
                    > I have no idea what Chet said. All that I got was:
                    >
                    > "Hello Justin,
                    >
                    > Hey!!
                    >
                    > Sunday, April 5, 2009, 7:13:09 PM, you wrote:
                    >
                    > > All,
                    >
                    > > I finished Ron's book - extreme programming installed -
                    >
                    >
                    > > Regards,
                    > > Justin
                    >
                    >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]"
                    >
                    > Most likely he sent his message using HTML and Yahoo! stripped all the
                    > content out.
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                    >
                    > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                    > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                    >
                    > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Adam Sroka
                    On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 11:56 PM, Craig Davidson ... LOL. What I meant was that I don t know what he wrote in his email. The only content I saw was Hello
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 6, 2009
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                      On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 11:56 PM, Craig Davidson
                      <craigmdavidson@...> wrote:
                      > Chet wrote XPInstalled book too.
                      >

                      LOL. What I meant was that I don't know what he wrote in his email.
                      The only content I saw was "Hello Justin, Hey!!" Presumably he said
                      something that pertained to the subject.

                      I think that was what Justin was saying as well. Not, "did you author
                      any books?" But, "did you intend to recommend some books?" If there
                      was something more to the message than "Hello Justin, Hey!!" Then it
                      didn't come through.


                      > 2009/4/6 Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...>
                      >
                      >> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Justin Daubenmire <jdaubenm@...>
                      >> wrote:
                      >> > ----- Original Message -----
                      >> > From: "Phlip" <phlip2005@...>
                      >> > Oh, you are right, Chet! Adam completely overlooked /Refactoring/ and
                      >> > /Refactoring to Patterns/.
                      >> >
                      >> > Chet, did you write a few books too? I wasn't sure what your initial
                      >> Hey!!
                      >> > post to me was referring to - please let me know/clarify.
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> I have no idea what Chet said. All that I got was:
                      >>
                      >> "Hello Justin,
                      >>
                      >> Hey!!
                      >>
                      >> Sunday, April 5, 2009, 7:13:09 PM, you wrote:
                      >>
                      >> > All,
                      >>
                      >> > I finished Ron's book - extreme programming installed -
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> > Regards,
                      >> > Justin
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]"
                      >>
                      >> Most likely he sent his message using HTML and Yahoo! stripped all the
                      >> content out.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                      >>
                      >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      >> extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                      >>
                      >> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                    • Justin Daubenmire
                      ... From: Adam Sroka I think that was what Justin was saying as well. Not, did you author any books? But, did you intend to recommend some books? If there
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 6, 2009
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Adam Sroka
                        I think that was what Justin was saying as well. Not, "did you author
                        any books?" But, "did you intend to recommend some books?" If there
                        was something more to the message than "Hello Justin, Hey!!" Then it
                        didn't come through.


                        Exactomendo. Sorry Chet, after reviewing the author list on the book I forgot to mention you too. Great book, great job, it rocks!

                        Regards,
                        Justin


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Justin Daubenmire
                        ... From: Adam Sroka P.S. Safari rules!!! Heck ya man! If it wasn t for safari, I d never be able to read any of the books! btw I got the white book on my
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 6, 2009
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                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Adam Sroka
                          P.S. Safari rules!!!

                          Heck ya man!

                          If it wasn't for safari, I'd never be able to read any of the books!


                          btw I got the white book on my shelf now and reading it...

                          Regards,
                          Justin


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ron Jeffries
                          ... Actually I thought Chet was objecting that he wasn t mentioned as an author of XP Installed. :) Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com www.xprogramming.com/blog
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 6, 2009
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                            Hello, Adam. On Monday, April 6, 2009, at 12:21:02 AM, you wrote:

                            > On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Phlip <phlip2005@...> wrote:
                            >> Chet Hendrickson wrote:
                            >>> Hello Justin,
                            >>>
                            >>> Hey!!

                            >> Oh, you are right, Chet! Adam completely overlooked /Refactoring/ and
                            >> /Refactoring to Patterns/.

                            > No, I didn't overlook them.

                            Actually I thought Chet was objecting that he wasn't mentioned as an
                            author of XP Installed. :)

                            Ron Jeffries
                            www.XProgramming.com
                            www.xprogramming.com/blog
                            If you're not throwing some gravel once in a while,
                            you're not using the whole road.
                          • Paul Jenkins
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 6, 2009
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                              ... which is an example of an odd metaphor; in the 'Real World'(tm) you need the book 'off the shelf' to be able to read it :-)

                              --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Daubenmire" <jdaubenm@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Adam Sroka
                              > P.S. Safari rules!!!
                              >
                              > Heck ya man!
                              >
                              > If it wasn't for safari, I'd never be able to read any of the books!
                              >
                              >
                              > btw I got the white book on my shelf now and reading it...
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              > Justin
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Chet Hendrickson
                              Hello Justin, Thank you. chet End of Message. ... -- Best regards, Chet Hendrickson mailto:lists@hendricksonxp.com Check out our
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 6, 2009
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                                Hello Justin,

                                Thank you.

                                chet

                                End of Message.

                                Monday, April 6, 2009, 6:15:31 AM, you wrote:

                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Adam Sroka
                                > I think that was what Justin was saying as well. Not, "did you author
                                > any books?" But, "did you intend to recommend some books?" If there
                                > was something more to the message than "Hello Justin, Hey!!" Then it
                                > didn't come through.


                                > Exactomendo. Sorry Chet, after reviewing the author list on the
                                > book I forgot to mention you too. Great book, great job, it rocks!

                                > Regards,
                                > Justin


                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                --
                                Best regards,
                                Chet Hendrickson mailto:lists@...
                                Check out our upcoming CSM Plus courses @
                                http://hendricksonxp.com/index.php?option=com_eventlist&Itemid=28
                              • Pieter Nagel
                                Read Agile Software Development - The Cooporative Game by Alistair Cockburn (pronounced Cohburn - don t know what your screen reader made of that one!). It s
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 6, 2009
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                                  Read "Agile Software Development - The Cooporative Game" by Alistair
                                  Cockburn (pronounced Cohburn - don't know what your screen reader made
                                  of that one!).

                                  It's written on a much "higher" level than any of the others. So it
                                  doesn't have much in the line of refactoring mechanics or any of that
                                  stuff in it.

                                  What it does have is the *why* behind most of what we do. Things like
                                  using Stories on a board instead of automated tools, our preference for
                                  face to face communication - none of that will really make sense without
                                  the background that book provides.

                                  --
                                  Pieter Nagel
                                  www.nagel.co.za
                                • Justin Daubenmire
                                  ... From: Paul Jenkins ... which is an example of an odd metaphor; in the Real World (tm) you need the book off the shelf to be able to read it :-) Yup...
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Apr 6, 2009
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                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Paul Jenkins
                                    ... which is an example of an odd metaphor; in the 'Real World'(tm) you need the book 'off the shelf' to be able to read it :-)

                                    Yup...

                                    Regards,
                                    Justin


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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