Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [XP] Documentation and External Stakeholders

Expand Messages
  • David Corbin
    ... It sounds good in theory, but I think it will fail (the majority of the time) in practice. Customers have been trained to want to know upfront what
    Message 1 of 41 , Nov 1, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Ron Jeffries wrote:
      >
      > At 11:28 AM 10/31/00 -0600, Tom Mostyn wrote:
      > >Agreed. But I stand be my assertion that it is not a win-win
      > >situation. Even if the axe was dropped for totally political reasons,
      > >the axe dropper is probably wishing they had taken a path so that the
      > >axe didn't have to be dropped. Build a business around it? I don't
      > >know too many people that can survive for years on end in a failure-mode
      > >environment always being axed. It can take a very heavy toll.
      >
      > Well, OK. I was thinking -- and I'm not talked out of it yet -- that you
      > could build a business on the basis of an agreement like this:
      >
      > -----
      > Neither of us knows the real business value of the features you want. Let's
      > build them in the order of most important first, as well as we can guess
      > that, and when we reach the point where the next feature isn't worth its
      > cost, let's stop. We'll manage our business so as to communicate with you
      > and be aware of when that day is coming. When it comes, you'll stop paying
      > and we'll take the responsibility of having work coming in the door for our
      > programmers. We're confident that our ability to build software of value --
      > rapidly -- will provide plenty of business for us.
      > -----

      It sounds good in theory, but I think it will fail (the majority of the
      time) in practice. Customers have been trained to want to know upfront
      what they're going to have to pay. I understand that they NEVER know
      what they're going to have to pay until it is done, but you can usually
      get an order of magnitude close. If the "go home" point is likely to be
      $500,000, many will tell you to walk right away. They'd rather do it by
      with pencil and paper. I think it's very narrow minded of them, but
      that seems to be the reactions we have when we attempt an argument
      similar to this.

      >
      > You'd have to decide to do business that way ... but I don't see why you
      > couldn't. In a sense, that's the way any consultant does business already.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Ronald E Jeffries
      > http://www.XProgramming.com
      > http://www.objectmentor.com
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
      >
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
      >
      > Ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com

      --
      David Corbin
      Mach Turtle Technologies, Inc.
      http://www.machturtle.com
      dcorbin@...
    • Jim Little
      From: Ron Jeffries ... things? Other methodologies address this issue by having a member of the development team, or an analyst, do
      Message 41 of 41 , Nov 1, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@...>

        > >* Understand the domain well
        > >* Understand the users' needs well
        > >* Be honest and intelligent
        > >* Be available to work alongside the team full time
        > >* AND be willing to take total responsibility for an entire expensive
        > >project!
        > >
        > >How often does that happen!??
        >
        > Often enough to keep me on airplanes. But your observation makes me wonder
        > this: how can a project really succeed without someone(s) to do those
        things?

        Other methodologies address this issue by having a member of the development
        team, or an analyst, do them. For the most successful project I've ever
        been on, I was that person. (Well, except the "honest and intelligent"
        part.)

        On the other hand, that project was still cancelled. And I found out later
        that the three most important things didn't get done because they were last
        on the priority list. Even though the user reps were the ones that set the
        priorities.

        :b

        Jim
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.