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origin of burndown and burnup charts

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  • George Dinwiddie
    Does anyone know the origin of these charts? Googling hasn t given me the answer. - George -- ... * George Dinwiddie *
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 15, 2009
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      Does anyone know the origin of these charts? Googling hasn't given me
      the answer.

      - George

      --
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
      Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
      Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    • Keith Ray
      I blogged about Burn-Up charts in 2003, Oct.22, soon after hearing about from John Brewer. He heard about them on a mailing list, but at that time, he didn t
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 16, 2009
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        I blogged about Burn-Up charts in 2003, Oct.22, soon after hearing
        about from John Brewer. He heard about them on a mailing list, but at
        that time, he didn't know who mentioned it there. My links to his
        messages are in this blog entry:

        http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/2003/10/22/

        On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 6:56 PM, George Dinwiddie
        <lists@...> wrote:
        > Does anyone know the origin of these charts? Googling hasn't given me
        > the answer.
        >
        > - George
        >
        > --
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
        > Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
        > Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
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        --
        C. Keith Ray, IXP Coach, Industrial Logic, Inc.
        http://industriallogic.com 866-540-8336 (toll free)
        Groove with our Agile Greatest Hits: http://www.industriallogic.com/elearning/
        http://agilesolutionspace.blogspot.com/
      • Dave Smith
        ... One popularization of burn up charts was after Alistair Cockburn visited the Silicon Valley Patterns Group in 2003 for a round table discussion. He wrote
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 17, 2009
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          On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Keith Ray <keith.ray@...> wrote:

          > I blogged about Burn-Up charts in 2003, Oct.22, soon after hearing
          > about from John Brewer. He heard about them on a mailing list, but at
          > that time, he didn't know who mentioned it there. My links to his
          > messages are in this blog entry:
          >
          > http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/2003/10/22/
          >

          One popularization of burn up charts was after Alistair Cockburn visited
          the Silicon Valley Patterns Group in 2003 for a round table discussion.
          He wrote up the discussion and credited Russ Rufer and Phil Goodwin.
          That's what John Brewer is writing about in Keith's post.

          My recollection is that Russ and Phil were the first ones to talk about burn
          up charts during the discussion, but that several other people around the
          table
          had already been using burn up charts as an alternative to burn down charts
          so the terminology predates October 2003.

          I first used burn up charts (as an alternative to burn down charts) soon
          after
          I'd heard about them some time in 2002, but don't recall now who gave me the
          idea, but I do remember that the hook was "business types like charts that
          go up and to the right, so do that instead," and that burn up charts let us
          show graphically that scope was being added to the plan in a way that was
          much more compelling that the saw tooth effect you get when trying to
          represent that when a burn down chart. (Much later I saw Mark Striebeck draw
          burn down charts with the bottom dropping out, which is much more
          compelling.)

          Burn down charts are a much older idea--I learned about them in a
          project management class in the early 90's--but under a different name.
          Dim memory says that calling them "burn down" charts got popular
          soon before I heard about "burn up" charts, so I'd guess the phrase
          caught on in late 2001/early 2002, then caught on again in late 2003.
          But I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was coined much earlier.

          Dave
          *
          *


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • George Dinwiddie
          Thanks Dave & Keith. It appears that this is not so easy to track down. ... Do you remember the time frame of this? Did it look something like the chart on
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 17, 2009
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            Thanks Dave & Keith. It appears that this is not so easy to track down.

            Dave Smith wrote:
            > (Much later I saw Mark Striebeck draw
            > burn down charts with the bottom dropping out, which is much more
            > compelling.)

            Do you remember the time frame of this? Did it look something like the
            chart on http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/alt-releaseburndown ?

            - George

            --
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
            Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
            Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          • Adam Sroka
            ... With respect to Scrum, they aren t mentioned in the 1995 OOPSLA paper, but they are mentioned in the 2001 book. I haven t been able to find any reference
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 17, 2009
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              On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Dave Smith <davewsmith@...> wrote:
              > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Keith Ray <keith.ray@...> wrote:
              >
              >> I blogged about Burn-Up charts in 2003, Oct.22, soon after hearing
              >> about from John Brewer. He heard about them on a mailing list, but at
              >> that time, he didn't know who mentioned it there. My links to his
              >> messages are in this blog entry:
              >>
              >> http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/2003/10/22/
              >>
              >
              > One popularization of burn up charts was after Alistair Cockburn visited
              > the Silicon Valley Patterns Group in 2003 for a round table discussion.
              > He wrote up the discussion and credited Russ Rufer and Phil Goodwin.
              > That's what John Brewer is writing about in Keith's post.
              >
              > My recollection is that Russ and Phil were the first ones to talk about burn
              > up charts during the discussion, but that several other people around the
              > table
              > had already been using burn up charts as an alternative to burn down charts
              > so the terminology predates October 2003.
              >
              > I first used burn up charts (as an alternative to burn down charts) soon
              > after
              > I'd heard about them some time in 2002, but don't recall now who gave me the
              > idea, but I do remember that the hook was "business types like charts that
              > go up and to the right, so do that instead," and that burn up charts let us
              > show graphically that scope was being added to the plan in a way that was
              > much more compelling that the saw tooth effect you get when trying to
              > represent that when a burn down chart. (Much later I saw Mark Striebeck draw
              > burn down charts with the bottom dropping out, which is much more
              > compelling.)
              >
              > Burn down charts are a much older idea--I learned about them in a
              > project management class in the early 90's--but under a different name.
              > Dim memory says that calling them "burn down" charts got popular
              > soon before I heard about "burn up" charts, so I'd guess the phrase
              > caught on in late 2001/early 2002, then caught on again in late 2003.
              > But I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was coined much earlier.
              >
              >

              With respect to Scrum, they aren't mentioned in the 1995 OOPSLA paper,
              but they are mentioned in the 2001 book. I haven't been able to find
              any reference to them before this, or outside the context of Scrum
              until significantly later.
            • Dave Smith
              On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 3:41 PM, George Dinwiddie ... 2006ish, and they looked somewhat like that. See page 150 of
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 17, 2009
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                On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 3:41 PM, George Dinwiddie
                <lists@...>wrote:

                > Thanks Dave & Keith. It appears that this is not so easy to track down.
                >
                > Dave Smith wrote:
                > > (Much later I saw Mark Striebeck draw
                > > burn down charts with the bottom dropping out, which is much more
                > > compelling.)
                >
                > Do you remember the time frame of this? Did it look something like the
                > chart on http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/alt-releaseburndown ?


                2006ish, and they looked somewhat like that. See page 150 of
                http://www.crisp.se/scrum/books/ScrumPapers20070424.pdf

                Dave


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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