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OT: Looking for something new to fiddle with

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  • Chris Wheeler
    Hey everybody, I m looking to scratch an itch right now, so I m throwing this question out there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 28, 2009
      Hey everybody,

      I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this question out
      there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your spare time
      that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally and am
      wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems, I'd had
      a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe explore
      Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls dabbling in
      these days?

      Chris.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Victor
      Try Smalltalk. Victor ... From: Chris Wheeler To: Extreme Programming Sent: Wednesday,
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 28, 2009
        Try Smalltalk.

        Victor

        =============================

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Chris Wheeler" <christopher.wheeler@...>
        To: "Extreme Programming" <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 7:48 PM
        Subject: [XP] OT: Looking for something new to fiddle with


        > Hey everybody,
        >
        > I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this question
        > out
        > there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your spare
        > time
        > that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally and am
        > wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems, I'd
        > had
        > a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe
        > explore
        > Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls dabbling
        > in
        > these days?
        >
        > Chris.
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
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        >
        >
        >
      • Adam Sroka
        ... LOL. Saw that coming a mile away. Erlang. A lot of people I respect have gotten into it lately, and it seems to show some promise. I can t provide much of
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 28, 2009
          On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Victor <vmgoldberg@...> wrote:
          > Try Smalltalk.
          >
          > Victor
          >

          LOL. Saw that coming a mile away.

          Erlang. A lot of people I respect have gotten into it lately, and it
          seems to show some promise. I can't provide much of a personal
          testimony aside from the fact that I bought the book
          (http://www.pragprog.com/titles/jaerlang/programming-erlang) and
          haven't done much with it yet.

          Also, if you know Ruby you might want to try Python. There is a bit of
          religiousity that tends to keep these two apart. I have come to like
          both of them, and I find that knowledge of one enriches the practice
          of the other.

          My current project is enhancing my musical skills (I play guitar and
          bass) with a software package called Ableton Live. Once I get bored
          with that I'll probably go back to learning Erlang.

          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Chris Wheeler" <christopher.wheeler@...>
          > To: "Extreme Programming" <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 7:48 PM
          > Subject: [XP] OT: Looking for something new to fiddle with
          >
          >> Hey everybody,
          >>
          >> I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this question
          >> out
          >> there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your spare
          >> time
          >> that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally and am
          >> wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems, I'd
          >> had
          >> a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe
          >> explore
          >> Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls dabbling
          >> in
          >> these days?
          >>
          >> Chris.
          >>
        • Laurent Bossavit
          Hi Chris, ... Last summer I came across Project Euler, turned out an excellent fit for my itch at the time which was to play with functional language
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 28, 2009
            Hi Chris,

            > What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your spare time
            > that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally
            > and am
            > wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling.


            Last summer I came across Project Euler, turned out an excellent fit
            for my "itch" at the time which was to play with functional language
            Haskell. That was good for a few weeks of intense programming fun
            whenever I needed it.

            Laurent Bossavit
            laurent@...
          • Torbjörn Gyllebring
            Last time I got this urge I began learning F# and integrated it with x86 assembly. I guess that s quite close to the urge to revisit C. But I would highly
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 28, 2009
              Last time I got this urge I began learning F# and integrated it with
              x86 assembly.
              I guess that's quite close to the urge to revisit C.

              But I would highly recommend F# I use it for recreational coding and
              scripting at work (easily invoked via its interactive shell).
              Or go with your urge to do some C again, it's always nice to revisit
              an old friend.

              On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 1:48 AM, Chris Wheeler
              <christopher.wheeler@...> wrote:
              > Hey everybody,
              >
              > I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this question out
              > there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your spare time
              > that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally and am
              > wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems, I'd had
              > a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe explore
              > Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls dabbling in
              > these days?
              >
              > Chris.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
            • Olof Bjarnason
              ... I play some with OpenGL in C# using the OpenTK library. Smalltalk was one of the most advanced and crazy systems I ve ever seen (I downloaded some image
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 29, 2009
                2009/1/29 Chris Wheeler <christopher.wheeler@...>:
                > Hey everybody,
                >
                > I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this question out
                > there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your spare time
                > that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally and am
                > wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems, I'd had
                > a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe explore
                > Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls dabbling in
                > these days?

                I play some with OpenGL in C# using the OpenTK library.

                Smalltalk was one of the most advanced and crazy systems I've ever
                seen (I downloaded some "image" that seemed to have a life of it's own
                somehow) but it was just too much to cope with without some kind of
                literature to read. I'll probably revisit that sometime when I go buy
                a book about it.

                I read about Ioke last week, it seemed awkward enough for some days of fun.

                Last year I had a look at Cobra Programming langauge, was a bit too
                immature then, might have gone further now: http://cobra-language.com/

                If your into OSes, try Haiku, AROS or Puppy linux.


                >
                > Chris.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >



                --
                Min blogg:
                http://olofb.wordpress.com
                [My blog, in Swedish]
              • Shlomi Fish
                ... Well, I m still doing mostly Perl, C (possibly with some C++) and Shell lately for production code. Language I have played with include Scheme, Haskell,
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 29, 2009
                  On Thursday 29 January 2009 02:48:31 Chris Wheeler wrote:
                  > Hey everybody,
                  >
                  > I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this question out
                  > there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your spare
                  > time that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally
                  > and am wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems,
                  > I'd had a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe
                  > explore Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls
                  > dabbling in these days?
                  >

                  Well, I'm still doing mostly Perl, C (possibly with some C++) and Shell lately
                  for production code. Language I have played with include Scheme, Haskell,
                  Common Lisp, Prolog (couldn't really find a good tutorial for it online, so I
                  stopped after a while), and most recently - Ruby. I also did or contributed to
                  some relatively-small projects in Python.

                  I also played a bit with J, but became frustrated that there were too many
                  operators there, which I couldn't fit in my head, and that the book did not
                  contain any exercises. And I also played a little with Squeak Smalltalk, but
                  became frustrated from its general lack of usability and the fact it had its
                  way of doing things and a problem interacting with the outside world, so I've
                  also neglected studying it.

                  Regards,

                  Shlomi Fish

                  > Chris.
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  --
                  -----------------------------------------------------------------
                  Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
                  What does "Zionism" mean? - http://xrl.us/bjn8u

                  <mauke> I'm not interested in what you're doing; what are you trying to
                  achieve?
                  <PerlJam> mauke: I'm trying to achieve world peace and this regex is
                  the last thing standing in my way! ;)
                • Tim Ottinger
                  Python. Though plenty of people like scala and haskell.
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 29, 2009
                    Python. Though plenty of people like scala and haskell.
                  • D'Arcy J.M. Cain
                    On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 05:46:12 -0800 (PST) ... +1 for Python. It has a clean, simple syntax that makes it easy to start programming within hours of first
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 29, 2009
                      On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 05:46:12 -0800 (PST)
                      Tim Ottinger <linux_tim@...> wrote:
                      > Python. Though plenty of people like scala and haskell.

                      +1 for Python. It has a clean, simple syntax that makes it easy to
                      start programming within hours of first looking at the language yet it
                      has powerful features that you can learn over time.

                      It also has one of the most newbie friendly mailing lists/newsgroups
                      that I have seen.

                      --
                      D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@...> | Democracy is three wolves
                      http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on
                      +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.
                    • Brad Appleton
                      ... I chose Scala as my new language to try and learn this year, (previous year was Groovy). -- Brad Appleton Agile CM Environments
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 29, 2009
                        Tim Ottinger wrote:
                        > Python. Though plenty of people like scala and haskell.

                        I chose "Scala" as my new language to try and learn this year, (previous
                        year was Groovy).
                        --
                        Brad Appleton <brad {AT} bradapp.net>
                        Agile CM Environments (http://blog.bradapp.net/)
                        & Software CM Patterns (www.scmpatterns.com)
                        "And miles to go before I sleep" -- Robert Frost
                      • Ken Mccormack
                        ... If you re interested in functional programming, this is a fascinating podcast with Simon Peyton Jones, talking about Haskell
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 29, 2009
                          >> Python. Though plenty of people like scala and haskell.

                          If you're interested in functional programming, this is a fascinating
                          podcast with Simon Peyton Jones, talking about Haskell
                          http://www.se-radio.net/podcast/2008-08/episode-108-simon-peyton-jones-functional-programming-and-haskell
                        • timander37
                          If I had extra time I d check out Lua. http://www.lua.org/ Tim ... question out ... spare time ... and am ... I d had ... explore ... dabbling in
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 30, 2009
                            If I had extra time I'd check out Lua.

                            http://www.lua.org/

                            Tim


                            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Chris Wheeler
                            <christopher.wheeler@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hey everybody,
                            >
                            > I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this
                            question out
                            > there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your
                            spare time
                            > that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally
                            and am
                            > wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems,
                            I'd had
                            > a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe
                            explore
                            > Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls
                            dabbling in
                            > these days?
                            >
                            > Chris.
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • George Paci
                            ... I really want to join the chorus of Python (it s my default language), but if you re already bored with ruby, that d be like advising you to convert from
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 30, 2009
                              Chris Wheeler wrote:
                              > I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this question out
                              > there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your spare time
                              > that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally and am
                              > wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems, I'd had
                              > a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe explore
                              > Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls dabbling in
                              > these days?
                              I really want to join the chorus of "Python" (it's my default
                              language), but if you're already bored with ruby, that'd be like
                              advising you to convert from Anglican to Catholic.

                              Instead, I recommend you go all Zen Buddhist and try a functional
                              language. F# might be the most comfortable for you, since it's on
                              the CLR, but a better idea would be to pick up Scheme (a Lisp dialect)
                              by reading through Abelson & Sussman's The Structure and Interpretation
                              of Computer Programs. (They sneakily make all the programming in the
                              first two chapters purely functional.)

                              It's online for free at:
                              http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/

                              Another approach is to go through Peter van Roy and Seif Haridi's
                              Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming. It, too, is
                              available for free online (in draft form):
                              http://www.x-crew.com/crew/apollo/ProgrammingText.pdf

                              The part of CTM I'm most excited about is "declarative concurrency,"
                              which seems to be the best way to write programs for multiple cores,
                              processors, and machines without going insane.

                              (Incidentally, C is like one of those Protestant sects that believe
                              you should work hard even though you're predestined to have memory
                              leaks anyway, C++ is like one of them a hundred years later after
                              they have academic theologians to make things more complicated,
                              and scripting languages are clearly Unitarian, since they deny
                              the Holy Trinity of Compile, Link, Run. Atheism, on this view,
                              is pure math.)


                              --George

                              The way you explore complex ecosystems is you just try lots and lots
                              and lots of things, and you hope that everybody who fails fails
                              informatively so that you can at least find a skull on a pikestaff
                              near where you're going. --Clay Shirky
                            • Chet Hendrickson
                              Hello Tim, Looks interesting. My biggest complaint about these new scripting languages, (BTW, I have been an advocate of Ruby since 2001) is their lack of a
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 30, 2009
                                Hello Tim,

                                Looks interesting. My biggest complaint about these new scripting
                                languages, (BTW, I have been an advocate of Ruby since 2001) is their
                                lack of a good development environment. I just don't want to work in
                                anything less sophisticated than what Smalltalk had 20 years ago.

                                chet

                                Friday, January 30, 2009, 12:15:24 PM, you wrote:

                                > If I had extra time I'd check out Lua.

                                > http://www.lua.org/

                                > Tim


                                > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Chris Wheeler
                                > <christopher.wheeler@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> Hey everybody,
                                >>
                                >> I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this
                                > question out
                                >> there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your
                                > spare time
                                >> that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally
                                > and am
                                >> wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems,
                                > I'd had
                                >> a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe
                                > explore
                                >> Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls
                                > dabbling in
                                >> these days?
                                >>
                                >> Chris.
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>





                                --
                                Best regards,
                                Chet mailto:lists@...
                              • George Paci
                                Can t believe I forgot this: For something completely different, try general-purpose GPU computing. About five years ago, graphics cards reached parity with
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 31, 2009
                                  Can't believe I forgot this:


                                  For something completely different, try general-purpose GPU
                                  computing. About five years ago, graphics cards reached parity
                                  with desktop CPUs for mathematical calculations. Since then,
                                  they've left the CPUs in the dust: 10x to 100x as fast.

                                  Recently, Nvidia has come up with a new architecture for their
                                  GPUs that helps immensely with using them for general-purpose
                                  programming, and a dialect of C in which to program for them,
                                  called CUDA.

                                  CUDA-capable cards can be had for under $200, though the newest
                                  ones (GTX-260 and GTX-280) are about twice that. But you don't
                                  even need a card to get started with CUDA: you can run your
                                  programs in emulation mode on a regular Intel box. Linux is
                                  the best platform for tool support, but I've been fine developing
                                  on Windows (not my choice).

                                  You can do XP with CUDA, in spite of the fact that failed tests
                                  occasionally bring down the entire machine. There are a couple
                                  of tricks and new techniques that help (e.g. treat your address
                                  calculations as functions to be tested). Staying out of the
                                  debugger is more important than ever when you have 512 threads
                                  active at once.


                                  And if I weren't so averse to shameless self-promotion, I'd
                                  mention that I have a consulting business focusing on translating
                                  existing numerical code (Matlab, Fortran, C/C++) to CUDA.


                                  --George Paci <gpaci@...>

                                  Remember, Sha Na Na played Woodstock.
                                • jaredhirsch
                                  Two thoughts: (1) How about going inward instead of outward? Maybe spend some time refactoring an existing/stale C# project to recultivate the love of poetry
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 31, 2009
                                    Two thoughts:

                                    (1) How about going inward instead of outward? Maybe
                                    spend some time refactoring an existing/stale C#
                                    project to recultivate the love of poetry which is,
                                    ultimately, no more tied to any programming language
                                    than human poetry is tied to any natural language.

                                    (2) I suggest the oldies: the Smalltalk 'blue book',
                                    or the LISP 1.5 manual. Both are (I believe) free at
                                    ACM's 'classics' website. If you ever wanted to really,
                                    really learn Smalltalk, the blue book is the way to
                                    go. It's the Moby Dick of computer documentation.

                                    --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Chris Wheeler
                                    <christopher.wheeler@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hey everybody,
                                    >
                                    > I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this
                                    question out
                                    > there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your
                                    spare time
                                    > that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally
                                    and am
                                    > wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems,
                                    I'd had
                                    > a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe
                                    explore
                                    > Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls
                                    dabbling in
                                    > these days?
                                    >
                                    > Chris.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Georg Tuparev
                                    Hi Chris, ... I vote for Objective-C. But get a beta of Snow Leopard. There the language got some really neat features for parallel computing, and if you like
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Feb 6, 2009
                                      Hi Chris,

                                      On Jan 29, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Chris Wheeler wrote:

                                      > Hey everybody,
                                      >
                                      > I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this
                                      > question out
                                      > there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your
                                      > spare time
                                      > that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally
                                      > and am
                                      > wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems,
                                      > I'd had
                                      > a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe
                                      > explore
                                      > Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls
                                      > dabbling in
                                      > these days?

                                      I vote for Objective-C. But get a beta of Snow Leopard. There the
                                      language got some really neat features for parallel computing, and if
                                      you like Ruby you will love them - because they are not only elegant,
                                      but fast like hell. Oh, one extra point for Obj-C. It could not only
                                      scratch an itch, but fill a pocket too. Think iPhone :-)

                                      cheers

                                      -- georg --

                                      "Computers are useless. They only give you answers."
                                      Pablo Picasso
                                    • Phlip
                                      ... Merb. Rails 3 is going to use it as its new kernel. (Big industry secret - Ruby and TDD are so fine that Rails changed the website sector despite having a
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Feb 6, 2009
                                        >> I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this
                                        >> question out
                                        >> there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your
                                        >> spare time
                                        >> that you find cool?

                                        Merb. Rails 3 is going to use it as its new kernel. (Big industry secret - Ruby
                                        and TDD are so fine that Rails changed the website sector despite having a
                                        sucktacular core!)

                                        Merb is currently experiencing more growth pains than adoption, so it is always
                                        "fun" to try to figure out how some gizmo inside it works. Today.

                                        --
                                        Phlip
                                      • Arnaud Bailly
                                        ... Functional programming: - haskell if you are prepared to change your vision of the world - scala if you are a java guy - F# if you are .net guy -- Arnaud
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Feb 8, 2009
                                          Georg Tuparev <gtupar@...> writes:

                                          > Hi Chris,
                                          >
                                          > On Jan 29, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Chris Wheeler wrote:
                                          >
                                          >> Hey everybody,
                                          >>
                                          >> I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this
                                          >> question out
                                          >> there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your
                                          >> spare time
                                          >> that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally
                                          >> and am
                                          >> wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems,
                                          >> I'd had
                                          >> a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe
                                          >> explore
                                          >> Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls
                                          >> dabbling in
                                          >> these days?
                                          >

                                          Functional programming:
                                          - haskell if you are prepared to change your vision of the world
                                          - scala if you are a java guy
                                          - F# if you are .net guy

                                          --
                                          Arnaud Bailly, PhD
                                          OQube <génie logiciel / software engineering>
                                          http://www.oqube.com/
                                        • James Carr
                                          Rediscover javascript. Write a web application using Jaxer. Create a javascript binding for an existing java app, using jquery learn extjs or come to enjoy
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Feb 8, 2009
                                            Rediscover javascript.
                                            Write a web application using Jaxer.
                                            Create a javascript binding for an existing java app, using jquery
                                            learn extjs
                                            or come to enjoy javascript as more than "that dirty scripting
                                            language people are sloppy with because they think that's the way it
                                            is" ;)

                                            Here's a start:

                                            var s = (function incrementor(start){
                                            return function(number){
                                            return start +=number;
                                            };
                                            })(10);

                                            alert(s(5));
                                            alert(s(2));
                                            alert(s(4));


                                            Thanks,
                                            James

                                            On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 5:08 AM, Arnaud Bailly <abailly@...> wrote:
                                            > Georg Tuparev <gtupar@...> writes:
                                            >
                                            >> Hi Chris,
                                            >>
                                            >> On Jan 29, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Chris Wheeler wrote:
                                            >>
                                            >>> Hey everybody,
                                            >>>
                                            >>> I'm looking to scratch an itch right now, so I'm throwing this
                                            >>> question out
                                            >>> there: What language/technology/tool are you playing with in your
                                            >>> spare time
                                            >>> that you find cool? I'm bored of ruby, and do C#, VB professionally
                                            >>> and am
                                            >>> wondering what to spend some spare time dabbling. Weird as it seems,
                                            >>> I'd had
                                            >>> a bit of a hankering to revisit C lately, don't know why, and maybe
                                            >>> explore
                                            >>> Objective-C on my Mac. But, what are some of you guys and girls
                                            >>> dabbling in
                                            >>> these days?
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            > Functional programming:
                                            > - haskell if you are prepared to change your vision of the world
                                            > - scala if you are a java guy
                                            > - F# if you are .net guy
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > Arnaud Bailly, PhD
                                            > OQube <génie logiciel / software engineering>
                                            > http://www.oqube.com/
                                            >
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