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To Owne, regarding Collocation.

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  • David H.
    Hello. As I do not know whether this would go way off topic for the list, I am asking whether you would like to speak off list owen? The reaosn why I am
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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      Hello.

      As I do not know whether this would go way off topic for the list, I
      am asking whether you would like to speak off list owen?
      The reaosn why I am offering it, is because most people put a major
      emphasis on "communication" as one of the main advantages of
      collocation. Face-to-Face comminucation that is.
      Communication Sciences is what I wrote my thesis in and I would be
      more than happy to give you some hard facts why face-to-face
      communication will always be superior to any other form of
      communication we currently employ.

      -d

      --
      Sent from gmail so do not trust this communication.
      Do not send me sensitive information here, ask for my none-gmail accounts.

      "Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
      benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello, David. On Friday, January 2, 2009, at 6:18:12 PM, you ... I d love to see that material, David. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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        Hello, David. On Friday, January 2, 2009, at 6:18:12 PM, you
        wrote:

        > Communication Sciences is what I wrote my thesis in and I would be
        > more than happy to give you some hard facts why face-to-face
        > communication will always be superior to any other form of
        > communication we currently employ.

        I'd love to see that material, David.

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        www.xprogramming.com/blog
        Speculation or experimentation - which is more likely to give the correct answer?
      • George Dinwiddie
        ... As would I. - George -- ... * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com Software Development
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 2, 2009
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          Ron Jeffries wrote:
          > Hello, David. On Friday, January 2, 2009, at 6:18:12 PM, you
          > wrote:
          >
          >> Communication Sciences is what I wrote my thesis in and I would be
          >> more than happy to give you some hard facts why face-to-face
          >> communication will always be superior to any other form of
          >> communication we currently employ.
          >
          > I'd love to see that material, David.

          As would I.

          - George

          --
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
          Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
          Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        • Ilja Preuß
          +1!!!
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 3, 2009
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            +1!!!

            2009/1/2 George Dinwiddie <lists@...>:
            > Ron Jeffries wrote:
            >> Hello, David. On Friday, January 2, 2009, at 6:18:12 PM, you
            >> wrote:
            >>
            >>> Communication Sciences is what I wrote my thesis in and I would be
            >>> more than happy to give you some hard facts why face-to-face
            >>> communication will always be superior to any other form of
            >>> communication we currently employ.
            >>
            >> I'd love to see that material, David.
            >
            > As would I.
            >
            > - George
            >
            > --
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            > * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
            > Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
            > Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
            >
            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
            >
            > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Keith Ray
            Maybe he can only present that material face-to-face. ;-) ... -- C. Keith Ray, IXP Coach, Industrial Logic, Inc. http://industriallogic.com 866-540-8336
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 3, 2009
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              Maybe he can only present that material face-to-face. ;-)

              On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Ilja Preuß <iljapreuss@...> wrote:
              > +1!!!
              >
              > 2009/1/2 George Dinwiddie <lists@...>:
              >> Ron Jeffries wrote:
              >>> Hello, David. On Friday, January 2, 2009, at 6:18:12 PM, you
              >>> wrote:
              >>>
              >>>> Communication Sciences is what I wrote my thesis in and I would be
              >>>> more than happy to give you some hard facts why face-to-face
              >>>> communication will always be superior to any other form of
              >>>> communication we currently employ.
              >>>
              >>> I'd love to see that material, David.
              >>
              >> As would I.
              >>
              >> - George
              >>
              >> --
              >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              >> * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
              >> Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
              >> Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
              >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
              >>
              >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
              >>
              >> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
              >
              > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >



              --
              C. Keith Ray, IXP Coach, Industrial Logic, Inc.
              http://industriallogic.com 866-540-8336 (toll free)
              Groove with our Agile Greatest Hits: http://www.industriallogic.com/elearning/
              http://agilesolutionspace.blogspot.com/
            • David H.
              ... Or maybe he actually needs some time to assemble the material after having moved to another country over the new year :P -d -- Sent from gmail so do not
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 3, 2009
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                2009/1/3 Keith Ray <keith.ray@...>:
                > Maybe he can only present that material face-to-face. ;-)
                >
                Or maybe he actually needs some time to assemble the material after
                having moved to another country over the new year :P

                -d

                --
                Sent from gmail so do not trust this communication.
                Do not send me sensitive information here, ask for my none-gmail accounts.

                "Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
                benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
              • Adrian Howard
                ... To tide you over - here s a copy and paste from - I think - the first instance of this repeated debate with Owen from a post I made on the agile-usability
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 4, 2009
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                  On 3 Jan 2009, at 19:16, David H. wrote:

                  > 2009/1/3 Keith Ray <keith.ray@...>:
                  >> Maybe he can only present that material face-to-face. ;-)
                  >>
                  > Or maybe he actually needs some time to assemble the material after
                  > having moved to another country over the new year :P

                  To tide you over - here's a copy and paste from - I think - the first
                  instance of this repeated debate with Owen from a post I made on the
                  agile-usability in 07.

                  I'm too lazy to battle with yahoogroups search - feel free to dig out
                  the full thread if anybody cares :-)

                  ----

                  On 3 Jun 2007, at 14:50, Adrian Howard wrote:
                  [snip]
                  > Folk have been doing CSCW research for a good twenty odd years now,
                  > so there's a bunch of research there - not a great deal of it
                  > associated with software development per se - but teamwork is
                  > teamwork as far as I am concerned.
                  >
                  > There's also a fair bit of research out there on software
                  > development specifically. For example:
                  >
                  > <http://possibility.com/Misc/p339-teasley.pdf>
                  >
                  > "Teams in these warrooms showed a doubling of productivity."
                  >
                  > <http://doi.ieeecomputersociety.org/10.1109/TSE.2003.1205177>
                  >
                  > "One key finding is that distributed work items appear to take about
                  > two and one-half times as long to complete as similar items where
                  > all the work is
                  > colocated"
                  >
                  > <http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~kraut/RKraut.site.files/articles/Espinosa07-TeamKnowledge&Coordination.pdf
                  > >
                  >
                  > "Our findings reveal that: software developers have different types
                  > of coordination needs; coordination across sites is more challenging
                  > than within a site; team knowledge helps members coordinate, but
                  > more so when they are separated by geographic distance; and the
                  > effect of different types of team knowledge on coordination
                  > effectiveness differs between co-located and geographically
                  > dispersed collaborators."
                  >
                  > <http://tinyurl.com/yqs5dp>
                  >
                  > "Our results show that, compared to same-site work, cross-site work
                  > takes much longer and requires more people for work of equal size
                  > and complexity. We also report a strong relationship between delay
                  > in cross-site work and the degree to which remote colleagues are
                  > perceived to help out when workloads are heavy"
                  >
                  > <http://www.springerlink.com/content/0137yud7c3k8xryw/>
                  >
                  > "Based on the empirical evidence, we have constructed a model of how
                  > remote communication and knowledge management, cultural diversity
                  > and time differences negatively impact requirements gathering,
                  > negotiations and specifications. Findings reveal that aspects such
                  > as a lack of a common understanding of requirements, together with a
                  > reduced awareness of a working local context, a trust level and an
                  > ability to share work artefacts significantly challenge the
                  > effective collaboration of remote stakeholders in negotiating a set
                  > of requirements that satisfies geographically distributed customers"
                  >
                  > I could go on :-)
                  >
                  > Now - of course - none of this means that you can't develop good
                  > products with distributed teams. What it does seem to be saying, and
                  > this matches my experiences, is that developing with distributed
                  > teams is harder.
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  >
                  > Adrian
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