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Re: [XP] Agile toolset questions (particularly code inspections....)

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  • agileprog
    A minor correction: *Craig*, It seems that ... ...
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
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      A minor correction: "*Craig*, It seems that ..."


      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "agileprog" <alexlevin@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > This was exactly my reaction as well. Adam, It seems that this is the
      > spirit you'll find here. After all the very nature of this group favors
      > "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools".
      >
      > Interestingly, in the last few days I've been following a blog post
      >
      <http://javadots.blogspot.com/2008/11/mythbusting-part-3-inherent-parado\
      > x.html> where the author criticizes static structural analysis tools.
      > This led to an intense discussion.
      >
      > The discussion there is somewhat analogous to this one. How much do we
      > trust tools? Are we willing to accept the fact that human reasoning
      > cannot be replaced by an automatic tool?
      >
      > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Sroka" <adam.sroka@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
      > >
      > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A tabmow99@ wrote:
      > > > Hi all,
      > > > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
      > > > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted addressed.
      > One
      > > > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
      > > > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible, etc)
      > and I'm
      > > > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it has a
      > few
      > > > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was
      > just
      > > > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what tool
      > for code
      > > > inspections) other folks were using out there?
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > > Craig.
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello, Craig. On Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 8:47:20 AM, you ... Isn t code inspection a human process, not a tool process? Ron Jeffries
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
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        Hello, Craig. On Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 8:47:20 AM, you
        wrote:

        > lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
        > programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've used?

        Isn't code inspection a human process, not a tool process?

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        www.xprogramming.com/blog
        Think! -- Aretha Franklin
      • Steven Gordon
        ... I believe that process change and augmentation (including the introduction of new tools) should be driven by the problems currently being experiences. Why
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
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          On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 6:47 AM, Craig A <tabmow99@...> wrote:
          > lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
          > programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've used?

          I believe that process change and augmentation (including the
          introduction of new tools) should be driven by the problems currently
          being experiences. Why waste time and effort (and possibly disrupt a
          good rhythm) to fix something that is not even broken? So, what code
          quality problems is your team experiencing?

          What does the team believe the root causes of these specific problems
          are? Was the problematic code written by pair programming doing test
          driven development? If not, why not apply those practices before
          looking to a tool to be a silver bullet? If so, was it always a
          single pair that worked on each problematic section code? If not, why
          not try switching pairs more often? Was YAGNI followed? Was
          refactoring done on every TDD cycle?

          Only if after root cause analysis does the team honestly believe they
          are following the practices as well as they can should they look to a
          tool to help (unless the team believes the tool is essential for doing
          root cause analysis).

          Steven Gordon
        • Craig A
          It is a human process, and we do have automated tools doing static analysis, but using a tool helps facilitate the human process of doing quick code
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
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            It is a human process, and we do have automated tools doing static analysis,
            but using a tool helps facilitate the human process of doing quick code
            inspections. A good tool doesn't have to introduce a lot of overhead.


            >
            > Isn't code inspection a human process, not a tool process?
            >
            > Ron Jeffries
            > www.XProgramming.com
            > www.xprogramming.com/blog
            > Think! -- Aretha Franklin
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • agileprog
            Again, not a tool but human process. How about setting up a coding Dojo in your team/company? This provides the settings for sharing the know-how and
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
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              Again, not a tool but human process. How about setting up a coding
              Dojo in your team/company? This provides the settings for sharing the
              know-how and discussing code quality in a relaxed (in the sense of:
              not related to an actual project) environment.

              http://www.codingdojo.org



              --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Craig A" <tabmow99@...> wrote:
              >
              > lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
              > programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've
              used?
              >
              >
              > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
              > >
              > >
              > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A
              <tabmow99@...<tabmow99%40gmail.com>>
              > > wrote:
              > > > Hi all,
              > > > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
              > > > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted
              addressed. One
              > > > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
              > > > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible,
              etc) and
              > > I'm
              > > > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it
              has a few
              > > > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was
              just
              > > > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what
              tool for
              > > code
              > > > inspections) other folks were using out there?
              > > >
              > > > Thanks,
              > > > Craig.
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Bill Michell
              For Java, I use Findbugs. Might not be quite what you re after, but as a free tool for static code analysis with good Eclipse and Ant integration, it is great.
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 3, 2008
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                For Java, I use Findbugs. Might not be quite what you're after, but as a
                free tool for static code analysis with good Eclipse and Ant
                integration, it is great.

                Occasional false positives, but it was Findbugs that got me to research
                why the double-checked locking idiom for lazy instantiation was a bad
                idea...

                Just like pairing with the combined wisdom of thousands of experts, all
                the time.


                --
                Bill Michell
                Development Team Leader, Broadcast Platforms, BBC FM&T (Journalism).

                -----Original Message-----
                From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig A
                Sent: 02 December 2008 13:47
                To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [XP] Agile toolset questions (particularly code
                inspections....)

                lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
                programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've
                used?


                On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...>
                wrote:

                > Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
                >
                >
                > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A
                <tabmow99@...<tabmow99%40gmail.com>>
                > wrote:
                > > Hi all,
                > > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
                > > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted addressed.
                One
                > > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
                > > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible, etc)
                and
                > I'm
                > > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it has a
                few
                > > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was
                just
                > > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what tool
                for
                > code
                > > inspections) other folks were using out there?
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > Craig.
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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              • Craig A
                Appreciate the info - I m aware of coding dojo s but I don t think it would work for our purposes here - we have a large team which is a mix of employees and
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 3, 2008
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                  Appreciate the info - I'm aware of coding dojo's but I don't think it would
                  work for our purposes here - we have a large team which is a mix of
                  employees and external contractors, and all very geographically diverse.
                  We could improve things for the employees, but tough to mandate something
                  like this on external contractors, where part of the concern is. But a
                  valid idea.

                  Thanks.

                  --
                  Craig.

                  On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:06 AM, agileprog <alexlevin@...> wrote:

                  > Again, not a tool but human process. How about setting up a coding
                  > Dojo in your team/company? This provides the settings for sharing the
                  > know-how and discussing code quality in a relaxed (in the sense of:
                  > not related to an actual project) environment.
                  >
                  > http://www.codingdojo.org
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com<extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > "Craig A" <tabmow99@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
                  > > programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've
                  > used?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A
                  > <tabmow99@...<tabmow99%40gmail.com>>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > > Hi all,
                  > > > > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
                  > > > > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted
                  > addressed. One
                  > > > > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
                  > > > > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible,
                  > etc) and
                  > > > I'm
                  > > > > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it
                  > has a few
                  > > > > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was
                  > just
                  > > > > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what
                  > tool for
                  > > > code
                  > > > > inspections) other folks were using out there?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thanks,
                  > > > > Craig.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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