Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Agile toolset questions (particularly code inspections....)

Expand Messages
  • Craig A
    Hi all, We ve been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted addressed. One toolset
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 1, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi all,
      We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
      different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted addressed. One
      toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
      w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible, etc) and I'm
      really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it has a few
      shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was just
      wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what tool for code
      inspections) other folks were using out there?

      Thanks,
      Craig.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jeff Grigg
      ... We use pair programming. (Sorry, but I just had to say it. ;-) And it s true: We do pair programming instead of formal after-the-fact code reviews. It
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        --- "Craig A" <tabmow99@...> wrote:
        > [...], so I was just wondering what types of toolsets
        > (or more specifically: what tool for code inspections)
        > other folks were using out there?

        We use pair programming.


        (Sorry, but I just had to say it. ;-) And it's true: We do pair
        programming instead of formal after-the-fact code reviews. It works
        for us! ;->
      • Adam Sroka
        Uh... you CC d the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.

          On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A <tabmow99@...> wrote:
          > Hi all,
          > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
          > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted addressed. One
          > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
          > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible, etc) and I'm
          > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it has a few
          > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was just
          > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what tool for code
          > inspections) other folks were using out there?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Craig.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
        • agileprog
          This was exactly my reaction as well. Adam, It seems that this is the spirit you ll find here. After all the very nature of this group favors Individuals and
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            This was exactly my reaction as well. Adam, It seems that this is the
            spirit you'll find here. After all the very nature of this group favors
            "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools".

            Interestingly, in the last few days I've been following a blog post
            <http://javadots.blogspot.com/2008/11/mythbusting-part-3-inherent-parado\
            x.html> where the author criticizes static structural analysis tools.
            This led to an intense discussion.

            The discussion there is somewhat analogous to this one. How much do we
            trust tools? Are we willing to accept the fact that human reasoning
            cannot be replaced by an automatic tool?

            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Sroka" <adam.sroka@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
            >
            > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A tabmow99@... wrote:
            > > Hi all,
            > > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
            > > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted addressed.
            One
            > > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
            > > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible, etc)
            and I'm
            > > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it has a
            few
            > > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was
            just
            > > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what tool
            for code
            > > inspections) other folks were using out there?
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > > Craig.
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • agileprog
            A minor correction: *Craig*, It seems that ... ...
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              A minor correction: "*Craig*, It seems that ..."


              --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "agileprog" <alexlevin@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > This was exactly my reaction as well. Adam, It seems that this is the
              > spirit you'll find here. After all the very nature of this group favors
              > "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools".
              >
              > Interestingly, in the last few days I've been following a blog post
              >
              <http://javadots.blogspot.com/2008/11/mythbusting-part-3-inherent-parado\
              > x.html> where the author criticizes static structural analysis tools.
              > This led to an intense discussion.
              >
              > The discussion there is somewhat analogous to this one. How much do we
              > trust tools? Are we willing to accept the fact that human reasoning
              > cannot be replaced by an automatic tool?
              >
              > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Sroka" <adam.sroka@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
              > >
              > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A tabmow99@ wrote:
              > > > Hi all,
              > > > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
              > > > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted addressed.
              > One
              > > > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
              > > > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible, etc)
              > and I'm
              > > > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it has a
              > few
              > > > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was
              > just
              > > > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what tool
              > for code
              > > > inspections) other folks were using out there?
              > > >
              > > > Thanks,
              > > > Craig.
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Craig A
              lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they ve used? ... [Non-text
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
                programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've used?


                On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...> wrote:

                > Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
                >
                >
                > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A <tabmow99@...<tabmow99%40gmail.com>>
                > wrote:
                > > Hi all,
                > > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
                > > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted addressed. One
                > > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
                > > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible, etc) and
                > I'm
                > > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it has a few
                > > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was just
                > > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what tool for
                > code
                > > inspections) other folks were using out there?
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > Craig.
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David Bogus
                In addition to pairing, frequently rotating pairs can mean that most of the teams sees most of the code. I feel one should have discussions about what is
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  In addition to pairing, frequently rotating pairs can mean that most
                  of the teams sees most of the code.

                  I feel one should have discussions about what is "good" code only
                  with code in front of them. As the different pairs decided the own
                  mini "good code standards" with rotation I find that teams converge to
                  a "single good code standard". This combined with shared code
                  formatter settings helps keep the disagreements about productive
                  issues rather then stylistic issues.

                  I like to run static tools as part of a Continuous Integration
                  process. I like Simian for detecting duplication. If you keep a big
                  visible chart of its metrics the team can decided when enough is
                  enough and do something about it.

                  http://www.redhillconsulting.com.au/products/simian/overview.html


                  Dave


                  On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Craig A <tabmow99@...> wrote:
                  > lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
                  > programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've used?
                  >
                  > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A
                  >> <tabmow99@...<tabmow99%40gmail.com>>
                  >> wrote:
                  >> > Hi all,
                  >> > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
                  >> > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted addressed. One
                  >> > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
                  >> > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible, etc) and
                  >> I'm
                  >> > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it has a few
                  >> > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was just
                  >> > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what tool for
                  >> code
                  >> > inspections) other folks were using out there?
                  >> >
                  >> > Thanks,
                  >> > Craig.
                  >> >
                  >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  Dave's Definitions: Morning, is after I've slept for more than four
                  hours. Lunch is the second meal of the day no matter the hour of
                  consumption. A long drive is one longer then you have last slept.
                  Ineffable, if you don't understand I couldn't possibly explain it.
                • Ron Jeffries
                  Hello, Craig. On Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 8:47:20 AM, you ... Isn t code inspection a human process, not a tool process? Ron Jeffries
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello, Craig. On Tuesday, December 2, 2008, at 8:47:20 AM, you
                    wrote:

                    > lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
                    > programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've used?

                    Isn't code inspection a human process, not a tool process?

                    Ron Jeffries
                    www.XProgramming.com
                    www.xprogramming.com/blog
                    Think! -- Aretha Franklin
                  • Steven Gordon
                    ... I believe that process change and augmentation (including the introduction of new tools) should be driven by the problems currently being experiences. Why
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 6:47 AM, Craig A <tabmow99@...> wrote:
                      > lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
                      > programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've used?

                      I believe that process change and augmentation (including the
                      introduction of new tools) should be driven by the problems currently
                      being experiences. Why waste time and effort (and possibly disrupt a
                      good rhythm) to fix something that is not even broken? So, what code
                      quality problems is your team experiencing?

                      What does the team believe the root causes of these specific problems
                      are? Was the problematic code written by pair programming doing test
                      driven development? If not, why not apply those practices before
                      looking to a tool to be a silver bullet? If so, was it always a
                      single pair that worked on each problematic section code? If not, why
                      not try switching pairs more often? Was YAGNI followed? Was
                      refactoring done on every TDD cycle?

                      Only if after root cause analysis does the team honestly believe they
                      are following the practices as well as they can should they look to a
                      tool to help (unless the team believes the tool is essential for doing
                      root cause analysis).

                      Steven Gordon
                    • Craig A
                      It is a human process, and we do have automated tools doing static analysis, but using a tool helps facilitate the human process of doing quick code
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        It is a human process, and we do have automated tools doing static analysis,
                        but using a tool helps facilitate the human process of doing quick code
                        inspections. A good tool doesn't have to introduce a lot of overhead.


                        >
                        > Isn't code inspection a human process, not a tool process?
                        >
                        > Ron Jeffries
                        > www.XProgramming.com
                        > www.xprogramming.com/blog
                        > Think! -- Aretha Franklin
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • agileprog
                        Again, not a tool but human process. How about setting up a coding Dojo in your team/company? This provides the settings for sharing the know-how and
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 2, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Again, not a tool but human process. How about setting up a coding
                          Dojo in your team/company? This provides the settings for sharing the
                          know-how and discussing code quality in a relaxed (in the sense of:
                          not related to an actual project) environment.

                          http://www.codingdojo.org



                          --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Craig A" <tabmow99@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
                          > programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've
                          used?
                          >
                          >
                          > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A
                          <tabmow99@...<tabmow99%40gmail.com>>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > Hi all,
                          > > > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
                          > > > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted
                          addressed. One
                          > > > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
                          > > > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible,
                          etc) and
                          > > I'm
                          > > > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it
                          has a few
                          > > > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was
                          just
                          > > > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what
                          tool for
                          > > code
                          > > > inspections) other folks were using out there?
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks,
                          > > > Craig.
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Bill Michell
                          For Java, I use Findbugs. Might not be quite what you re after, but as a free tool for static code analysis with good Eclipse and Ant integration, it is great.
                          Message 12 of 13 , Dec 3, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            For Java, I use Findbugs. Might not be quite what you're after, but as a
                            free tool for static code analysis with good Eclipse and Ant
                            integration, it is great.

                            Occasional false positives, but it was Findbugs that got me to research
                            why the double-checked locking idiom for lazy instantiation was a bad
                            idea...

                            Just like pairing with the combined wisdom of thousands of experts, all
                            the time.


                            --
                            Bill Michell
                            Development Team Leader, Broadcast Platforms, BBC FM&T (Journalism).

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig A
                            Sent: 02 December 2008 13:47
                            To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [XP] Agile toolset questions (particularly code
                            inspections....)

                            lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
                            programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've
                            used?


                            On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...>
                            wrote:

                            > Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
                            >
                            >
                            > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A
                            <tabmow99@...<tabmow99%40gmail.com>>
                            > wrote:
                            > > Hi all,
                            > > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
                            > > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted addressed.
                            One
                            > > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
                            > > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible, etc)
                            and
                            > I'm
                            > > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it has a
                            few
                            > > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was
                            just
                            > > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what tool
                            for
                            > code
                            > > inspections) other folks were using out there?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks,
                            > > Craig.
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                            ------------------------------------

                            To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...

                            To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                            extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...

                            ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links




                            http://www.bbc.co.uk/
                            This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
                            If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
                            Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
                            Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
                            Further communication will signify your consent to this.
                          • Craig A
                            Appreciate the info - I m aware of coding dojo s but I don t think it would work for our purposes here - we have a large team which is a mix of employees and
                            Message 13 of 13 , Dec 3, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Appreciate the info - I'm aware of coding dojo's but I don't think it would
                              work for our purposes here - we have a large team which is a mix of
                              employees and external contractors, and all very geographically diverse.
                              We could improve things for the employees, but tough to mandate something
                              like this on external contractors, where part of the concern is. But a
                              valid idea.

                              Thanks.

                              --
                              Craig.

                              On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:06 AM, agileprog <alexlevin@...> wrote:

                              > Again, not a tool but human process. How about setting up a coding
                              > Dojo in your team/company? This provides the settings for sharing the
                              > know-how and discussing code quality in a relaxed (in the sense of:
                              > not related to an actual project) environment.
                              >
                              > http://www.codingdojo.org
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com<extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com>,
                              > "Craig A" <tabmow99@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > lol... Good point - my mistake. Sorry. So *other* than pair
                              > > programming, does anyone have any suggestions on what tools they've
                              > used?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Uh... you CC'd the XP list. So, Pair Programming.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Craig A
                              > <tabmow99@...<tabmow99%40gmail.com>>
                              > > > wrote:
                              > > > > Hi all,
                              > > > > We've been using scrum for a while now, and are investigating a few
                              > > > > different toolsets to solve some of the things we wanted
                              > addressed. One
                              > > > > toolset we've been looking at is the Atlassian toolset (ie. JIRA
                              > > > > w/Greenhopper for story management/etc, Confluence, Crucible,
                              > etc) and
                              > > > I'm
                              > > > > really liking using Crucible for code inspections. However, it
                              > has a few
                              > > > > shortcomings that won't be addressed in the short term, so I was
                              > just
                              > > > > wondering what types of toolsets (or more specifically: what
                              > tool for
                              > > > code
                              > > > > inspections) other folks were using out there?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks,
                              > > > > Craig.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.