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project managers

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  • aacockburn
    Hi, there --- Someone on a different list asked about project managers and XP. I ve lost touch enough with the evolution of XP that I have no idea how to
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 14, 2008
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      Hi, there ---

      Someone on a different list asked about project managers and XP.

      I've lost touch enough with the evolution of XP that I have no
      idea how to answer.

      Are PMs allowed/disallowed/encouraged/discouraged/renamed/retrained...
      in XP as it's understood these days? What words does one use
      around the topic of XP and project managers?

      thanks for the help,
      Alistair
    • Paul Grew
      my PMs are more concerned with financing the project and status reporting than the coach/tracker roles described in Kent Becks 1st edition and the tech team
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 14, 2008
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        my PMs are more concerned with financing the project and status reporting
        than the coach/tracker roles described in Kent Becks 1st edition and the
        tech team pretty much self manage

        > Hi, there ---
        >
        > Someone on a different list asked about project managers and XP.
        >
        > I've lost touch enough with the evolution of XP that I have no
        > idea how to answer.
        >
        > Are PMs allowed/disallowed/encouraged/discouraged/renamed/retrained...
        > in XP as it's understood these days? What words does one use
        > around the topic of XP and project managers?
        >
        > thanks for the help,
        > Alistair
        >
        >
        >
        >


        <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulgrew" ><img
        src="http://www.linkedin.com/img/webpromo/btn_viewmy_160x33.gif"
        width="160" height="33" border="0" alt="View Paul Grew's profile on
        LinkedIn"></a>
      • Victor
        Hi Alistair, I am sure others can give better responses than mine, but here is my take. The way I see it, somebody has to do the paperwork and reporting on how
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 14, 2008
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          Hi Alistair,

          I am sure others can give better responses than mine, but here is my take.
          The way I see it, somebody has to do the paperwork and reporting on how the
          project is going, also from time to time to redirect the efforts of the team
          and other corrective measures. However, in an "ideal" XP environment the
          relationship is much more cooperative and participatory than in other kinds
          of environments. Maybe these management responsibilities could be shared,
          like rotating them through the team, or somebody takes some responsibility
          while others take other responsibilities. However, this is very much
          personality dependent and therefore local to each team. I would say that
          rather than imposing organizational rules that are too restrictive and
          controlling, the best is to adapt them to the realities in the field.

          Víctor

          ==========================

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "aacockburn" <acockburn@...>
          To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:48 AM
          Subject: [XP] project managers


          > Hi, there ---
          >
          > Someone on a different list asked about project managers and XP.
          >
          > I've lost touch enough with the evolution of XP that I have no
          > idea how to answer.
          >
          > Are PMs allowed/disallowed/encouraged/discouraged/renamed/retrained...
          > in XP as it's understood these days? What words does one use
          > around the topic of XP and project managers?
          >
          > thanks for the help,
          > Alistair
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
          >
          > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Victor
          Does anybody have any experience or comments about matrix organizations? Thanks, Víctor
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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            Does anybody have any experience or comments about matrix organizations?

            Thanks,
            Víctor
          • Mike Hill
            ... Why yes, I do: Matrix organization is a cruel sad joke. 1) It operates against team-nature , a key aspect of all organizations. 2) It confuses everybody
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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              On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Victor <vmgoldberg@...> wrote:
              > Does anybody have any experience or comments about matrix organizations?

              Why yes, I do: Matrix organization is a cruel sad joke.

              1) It operates against 'team-nature', a key aspect of all organizations.
              2) It confuses everybody and their dog about who's in charge.
              3) It undermines planning without having all the employee's matrix
              folk in the room.

              Matrix management is a classic theory-driven clusterfuck, as far as I can tell.

              I have never grasped the theoretical benefit. Perhaps someone could
              enlighten me.

              Cheers,
              Hill
              <http://www.industriallogic.com/elearning> --> For the best in online learning.



              >
              > Thanks,
              > Víctor
              >
              >
            • Tim Ottinger
              * It is not the simplest thing that could possibly work. * It complicates the flow of tasks. * It lets managers *not* prioritize their work by forcing
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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                * It is not the simplest thing that could possibly work.
                * It complicates the flow of tasks.
                * It lets managers *not* prioritize their work by forcing employees to prioritize between bosses.
                * Employees can't win in a matrix organization.

                * It doesn't work.
                * It is so very Not-Agile that I would consider it a large problem.
                * It builds on the well-debunked myth that multi-tasking is a good thing.
                * It substitutes a swirl of mad activity for any kind of actual progress.

                You might ask what problems they think they're solving by being a matrix org, and then begin collecting data on how it's creating waste and turbulence and unpredictability in the development team. You'll have plenty of ready examples. Data might help, if the matrixed managers are willing to consider the data.


                Tim Ottinger
                http://agileotter.blogspot.com/
              • Dave Rooney
                Piling on... ... 4) Humans suck at multitasking, and the two Matrix orgs I ve seen have people working on multiple tasks for multiple projects on any given
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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                  Piling on...

                  Mike Hill wrote:
                  > Why yes, I do: Matrix organization is a cruel sad joke.
                  >
                  > 1) It operates against 'team-nature', a key aspect of all organizations.
                  > 2) It confuses everybody and their dog about who's in charge.
                  > 3) It undermines planning without having all the employee's matrix
                  > folk in the room.
                  >

                  4) Humans suck at multitasking, and the two Matrix orgs I've seen have
                  people working on multiple tasks for multiple projects on any given day.

                  5) People are commoditized - they are "resources", not human beings,
                  that are expected to operated identically from day to day without variation.

                  6) Project planning assumes that people are available 100% of the time,
                  and that context switches between tasks are infinitesimally small.

                  7) Project planning based on #6's incorrect assumptions results in an
                  absolutely unachievable pipeline of work.

                  > I have never grasped the theoretical benefit. Perhaps someone could enlighten me.
                  >

                  Taylorism. "Resources" and "Capacity" replace "People" and "Innovation".

                  BTW, I'm deprogramming a Matrix organization right now. Does it show? ;)

                  Dave Rooney
                  Mayford Technologies
                  "Helping you become AGILE... to SURVIVE and THRIVE!"
                  http://www.mayford.ca
                  http://practicalagility.blogspot.com
                • Victor
                  Thank you, guys. You confirmed my fears. Víctor ... From: Dave Rooney To: Sent: Wednesday,
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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                    Thank you, guys. You confirmed my fears.

                    Víctor

                    ==========================================

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Dave Rooney" <dave.rooney@...>
                    To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 1:05 PM
                    Subject: Re: [XP] Matrix Organizations


                    > Piling on...
                    >
                    > Mike Hill wrote:
                    >> Why yes, I do: Matrix organization is a cruel sad joke.
                    >>
                    >> 1) It operates against 'team-nature', a key aspect of all organizations.
                    >> 2) It confuses everybody and their dog about who's in charge.
                    >> 3) It undermines planning without having all the employee's matrix
                    >> folk in the room.
                    >>
                    >
                    > 4) Humans suck at multitasking, and the two Matrix orgs I've seen have
                    > people working on multiple tasks for multiple projects on any given day.
                    >
                    > 5) People are commoditized - they are "resources", not human beings,
                    > that are expected to operated identically from day to day without
                    > variation.
                    >
                    > 6) Project planning assumes that people are available 100% of the time,
                    > and that context switches between tasks are infinitesimally small.
                    >
                    > 7) Project planning based on #6's incorrect assumptions results in an
                    > absolutely unachievable pipeline of work.
                    >
                    >> I have never grasped the theoretical benefit. Perhaps someone could
                    >> enlighten me.
                    >>
                    >
                    > Taylorism. "Resources" and "Capacity" replace "People" and "Innovation".
                    >
                    > BTW, I'm deprogramming a Matrix organization right now. Does it show? ;)
                    >
                    > Dave Rooney
                    > Mayford Technologies
                    > "Helping you become AGILE... to SURVIVE and THRIVE!"
                    > http://www.mayford.ca
                    > http://practicalagility.blogspot.com
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                    >
                    > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                    > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                    >
                    > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Mike Hill
                    To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would draw lots of demurrals. Maybe it still will, but so far, the votes are in. :)
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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                      To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                      draw lots of demurrals. Maybe it still will, but so far, the votes
                      are in. :)



                      On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Victor <vmgoldberg@...> wrote:
                      > Thank you, guys. You confirmed my fears.
                      >
                      > Víctor
                      >
                      > ==========================================
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Dave Rooney" <dave.rooney@...>
                      > To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 1:05 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [XP] Matrix Organizations
                      >
                      >> Piling on...
                      >>
                      >> Mike Hill wrote:
                      >>> Why yes, I do: Matrix organization is a cruel sad joke.
                      >>>
                      >>> 1) It operates against 'team-nature', a key aspect of all organizations.
                      >>> 2) It confuses everybody and their dog about who's in charge.
                      >>> 3) It undermines planning without having all the employee's matrix
                      >>> folk in the room.
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >> 4) Humans suck at multitasking, and the two Matrix orgs I've seen have
                      >> people working on multiple tasks for multiple projects on any given day.
                      >>
                      >> 5) People are commoditized - they are "resources", not human beings,
                      >> that are expected to operated identically from day to day without
                      >> variation.
                      >>
                      >> 6) Project planning assumes that people are available 100% of the time,
                      >> and that context switches between tasks are infinitesimally small.
                      >>
                      >> 7) Project planning based on #6's incorrect assumptions results in an
                      >> absolutely unachievable pipeline of work.
                      >>
                      >>> I have never grasped the theoretical benefit. Perhaps someone could
                      >>> enlighten me.
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >> Taylorism. "Resources" and "Capacity" replace "People" and "Innovation".
                      >>
                      >> BTW, I'm deprogramming a Matrix organization right now. Does it show? ;)
                      >>
                      >> Dave Rooney
                      >> Mayford Technologies
                      >> "Helping you become AGILE... to SURVIVE and THRIVE!"
                      >> http://www.mayford.ca
                      >> http://practicalagility.blogspot.com
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                      >>
                      >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      >> extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                      >>
                      >> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                    • Victor
                      ... draw lots of demurrals. Sorry, you are passé now. If you want to be the center of attention, you need to be a little more outrageous. :-) Víctor ...
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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                        > To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                        draw lots of demurrals.

                        Sorry, you are passé now. If you want to be the center of attention, you
                        need to be a little more outrageous. :-)

                        Víctor

                        =======================================

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Mike Hill" <mike@...>
                        To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 1:53 PM
                        Subject: Re: [XP] Matrix Organizations


                        To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                        draw lots of demurrals. Maybe it still will, but so far, the votes
                        are in. :)



                        On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Victor <vmgoldberg@...> wrote:
                        > Thank you, guys. You confirmed my fears.
                        >
                        > Víctor
                        >
                        > ==========================================
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "Dave Rooney" <dave.rooney@...>
                        > To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 1:05 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [XP] Matrix Organizations
                        >
                        >> Piling on...
                        >>
                        >> Mike Hill wrote:
                        >>> Why yes, I do: Matrix organization is a cruel sad joke.
                        >>>
                        >>> 1) It operates against 'team-nature', a key aspect of all organizations.
                        >>> 2) It confuses everybody and their dog about who's in charge.
                        >>> 3) It undermines planning without having all the employee's matrix
                        >>> folk in the room.
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >> 4) Humans suck at multitasking, and the two Matrix orgs I've seen have
                        >> people working on multiple tasks for multiple projects on any given day.
                        >>
                        >> 5) People are commoditized - they are "resources", not human beings,
                        >> that are expected to operated identically from day to day without
                        >> variation.
                        >>
                        >> 6) Project planning assumes that people are available 100% of the time,
                        >> and that context switches between tasks are infinitesimally small.
                        >>
                        >> 7) Project planning based on #6's incorrect assumptions results in an
                        >> absolutely unachievable pipeline of work.
                        >>
                        >>> I have never grasped the theoretical benefit. Perhaps someone could
                        >>> enlighten me.
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >> Taylorism. "Resources" and "Capacity" replace "People" and "Innovation".
                        >>
                        >> BTW, I'm deprogramming a Matrix organization right now. Does it show? ;)
                        >>
                        >> Dave Rooney
                        >> Mayford Technologies
                        >> "Helping you become AGILE... to SURVIVE and THRIVE!"
                        >> http://www.mayford.ca
                        >> http://practicalagility.blogspot.com
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> ------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                        >>
                        >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                        >> extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                        >>
                        >> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >

                        ------------------------------------

                        To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...

                        To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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                      • Mike Hill
                        Sigh. Have to find a trans- that will really -gress, next time.
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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                          Sigh. Have to find a trans- that will really -gress, next time.



                          On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Victor <vmgoldberg@...> wrote:
                          >> To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                          > draw lots of demurrals.
                          >
                          > Sorry, you are passé now. If you want to be the center of attention, you
                          > need to be a little more outrageous. :-)
                          >
                          > Víctor
                          >
                          > =======================================
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Mike Hill" <mike@...>
                          > To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 1:53 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [XP] Matrix Organizations
                          >
                          > To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                          > draw lots of demurrals. Maybe it still will, but so far, the votes
                          > are in. :)
                          >
                          > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Victor <vmgoldberg@...> wrote:
                          >> Thank you, guys. You confirmed my fears.
                          >>
                          >> Víctor
                          >>
                          >> ==========================================
                          >>
                          >> ----- Original Message -----
                          >> From: "Dave Rooney" <dave.rooney@...>
                          >> To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                          >> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 1:05 PM
                          >> Subject: Re: [XP] Matrix Organizations
                          >>
                          >>> Piling on...
                          >>>
                          >>> Mike Hill wrote:
                          >>>> Why yes, I do: Matrix organization is a cruel sad joke.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> 1) It operates against 'team-nature', a key aspect of all organizations.
                          >>>> 2) It confuses everybody and their dog about who's in charge.
                          >>>> 3) It undermines planning without having all the employee's matrix
                          >>>> folk in the room.
                          >>>>
                          >>>
                          >>> 4) Humans suck at multitasking, and the two Matrix orgs I've seen have
                          >>> people working on multiple tasks for multiple projects on any given day.
                          >>>
                          >>> 5) People are commoditized - they are "resources", not human beings,
                          >>> that are expected to operated identically from day to day without
                          >>> variation.
                          >>>
                          >>> 6) Project planning assumes that people are available 100% of the time,
                          >>> and that context switches between tasks are infinitesimally small.
                          >>>
                          >>> 7) Project planning based on #6's incorrect assumptions results in an
                          >>> absolutely unachievable pipeline of work.
                          >>>
                          >>>> I have never grasped the theoretical benefit. Perhaps someone could
                          >>>> enlighten me.
                          >>>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Taylorism. "Resources" and "Capacity" replace "People" and "Innovation".
                          >>>
                          >>> BTW, I'm deprogramming a Matrix organization right now. Does it show? ;)
                          >>>
                          >>> Dave Rooney
                          >>> Mayford Technologies
                          >>> "Helping you become AGILE... to SURVIVE and THRIVE!"
                          >>> http://www.mayford.ca
                          >>> http://practicalagility.blogspot.com
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> ------------------------------------
                          >>>
                          >>> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                          >>>
                          >>> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          >>> extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                          >>>
                          >>> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                          >
                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.comYahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                        • Ron Jeffries
                          Hello, Mike. On Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 10:53:37 AM, you ... Sorry, I was at lunch. You are mistaken, entirely mistaken. The matrix organization is
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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                            Hello, Mike. On Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 10:53:37 AM, you
                            wrote:

                            > To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                            > draw lots of demurrals. Maybe it still will, but so far, the votes
                            > are in. :)

                            Sorry, I was at lunch. You are mistaken, entirely mistaken.

                            The matrix organization is the smoothest and most sensible way to
                            deal with the realities of modern day business. By separating out
                            one's personal skill set from the business purpose of one's work,
                            and placing one in the hands of one's discipline manager and the
                            other in the hands of the line manager. each and every detail of the
                            employee's business life can be, and must be, figured out and
                            implemented by the managers aforementioned.

                            As such, this is the best possible deal until the Socialist Party is
                            finally swept into office in this country, or at least until the
                            current zombie crisis has been dealt with. As you know, the new
                            faster-walking zombies are a threat to anyone who isn't moving very
                            rapidly, and there is really no way to discern whether someone may
                            be a zombie. As such, double cover from one's discipline manager AND
                            one's line manager is the only way to remain safe in these troubled
                            times.

                            Also, we must not forget the ever-present danger represented by the
                            space aliens who continue to harass our citizenry with their flying
                            software and their disgusting and painful mental and anal probes.
                            The applicability of the matrix organization here is clear, as
                            anyone who has spent any time at all in a matrix organization will
                            find an anal probe to be a pleasant respite from the work
                            environment.

                            I'm sorry to have to contradict you, as I hold you in great respect.
                            But when you're wrong, you're wrong.

                            Ron Jeffries
                            www.XProgramming.com
                            www.xprogramming.com/blog
                            You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra
                          • Jeff Grigg
                            ... Ah! So you HAVE seen Resident Evil: Extinction !!! ( New! With much faster and smarter zombies! ;-) (And I Am Legend had some pretty impressive CGI
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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                              --- Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
                              > [...] As you know, the new faster-walking zombies are a
                              > threat to anyone who isn't moving very rapidly, [...]

                              Ah! So you HAVE seen "Resident Evil: Extinction"!!!

                              ("New! With much faster and smarter zombies!" ;-)



                              (And "I Am Legend" had some pretty impressive CGI zombies too. ;-)
                            • Jeff Grigg
                              ... It s inhumane. We ve always known this. Matthew 6:24 No one can serve two masters, because either he will hate one and love the other, or be loyal to one
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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                                --- "Victor" <vmgoldberg@...> wrote:
                                > Does anybody have any experience or comments about
                                > matrix organizations?

                                It's inhumane.

                                We've always known this.

                                Matthew 6:24
                                "No one can serve two masters, because either he will hate one and
                                love the other, or be loyal to one and despise the other. [...]"
                              • Christophe Louvion
                                My experience is that matrixed organizations work extremely well -when set properly. I ve worked in purely product driven environments: over time, the
                                Message 15 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
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                                  My experience is that matrixed organizations work extremely well -when
                                  set properly.
                                  I've worked in purely product driven environments: over time, the
                                  technology is fragmented, complexity goes up and velocity goes down.
                                  (too many OS, languages, DBs, APIs, redundant sytems etc)
                                  I've worked in purely functional driven environments: over time,
                                  policies, organization boundaries, hand offs, buffers accumulate and
                                  slow down response time to bring projects to a halt.

                                  Lean provides a great framework for matrixed organization:

                                  The Product champion responsible for product definition, delivery and
                                  ROI. What does a product champion do?
                                  -Understands the customer needs
                                  -Provides product vision
                                  -Decides on release goals and dates
                                  -Manages the product backlog, prioritizing according to market value at
                                  every iteration
                                  -Sets and is responsible for product quality, uptime and performance
                                  -Accepts and rejects work results
                                  -Communicates with the company/customers about the product life cycle
                                  -Focuses on the entire value stream, from customer request to cash
                                  -Forecasts/justifies resources required

                                  Functional Leader is responsible for system improvement and people
                                  management
                                  -Provides organizational vision and functional guidance
                                  -Takes responsibility for staff development and skill acquisition
                                  -Provides career path guidelines
                                  -Preserves Knowledge, has towering functional expertise
                                  -Balances observer and contributor roles without sucking the
                                  responsibility out of the team
                                  -Establishes standards for processes, tools and platforms
                                  -Advocates for continuous improvement (kaisen) for teams and the
                                  organization at large, across the value stream
                                  -Champions functional research
                                  -Removes impediments across the value chain
                                  -Provides feedback to the team, manages promotions, timesheets, vacation
                                  requests, hire, discipline
                                  -Gives individuals tools to be a great team member
                                  -Assists product champion with ROI calculations
                                  -Takes responsibility for cost effectiveness of the function
                                  -Procures things for the team
                                  -Maintains vendor relationship
                                  -Coaches teams through conflict resolution

                                  With those clear orthogonal roles, there are still somewhat tensions in
                                  different directions.Those are healthy. They mostly live around going to
                                  market soon, and getting things uniformed.
                                  Those are important questions to tackle, from both aspect.
                                  You need strong people capable of negotiating, and clear rules how
                                  conflict get resolved if no agreement can be made (i.e., who is the
                                  final decider).




                                  Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello, Mike. On Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 10:53:37 AM, you
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                                  > > draw lots of demurrals. Maybe it still will, but so far, the votes
                                  > > are in. :)
                                  >
                                  > Sorry, I was at lunch. You are mistaken, entirely mistaken.
                                  >
                                  > The matrix organization is the smoothest and most sensible way to
                                  > deal with the realities of modern day business. By separating out
                                  > one's personal skill set from the business purpose of one's work,
                                  > and placing one in the hands of one's discipline manager and the
                                  > other in the hands of the line manager. each and every detail of the
                                  > employee's business life can be, and must be, figured out and
                                  > implemented by the managers aforementioned.
                                  >
                                  > As such, this is the best possible deal until the Socialist Party is
                                  > finally swept into office in this country, or at least until the
                                  > current zombie crisis has been dealt with. As you know, the new
                                  > faster-walking zombies are a threat to anyone who isn't moving very
                                  > rapidly, and there is really no way to discern whether someone may
                                  > be a zombie. As such, double cover from one's discipline manager AND
                                  > one's line manager is the only way to remain safe in these troubled
                                  > times.
                                  >
                                  > Also, we must not forget the ever-present danger represented by the
                                  > space aliens who continue to harass our citizenry with their flying
                                  > software and their disgusting and painful mental and anal probes.
                                  > The applicability of the matrix organization here is clear, as
                                  > anyone who has spent any time at all in a matrix organization will
                                  >

                                  > find an anal probe to be a pleasant respite from the work
                                  > environment.
                                  >
                                  > I'm sorry to have to contradict you, as I hold you in great respect.
                                  > But when you're wrong, you're wrong.
                                  >
                                  > Ron Jeffries
                                  > www.XProgramming.com
                                  > www.xprogramming.com/blog
                                  > You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Mike Coon
                                  I think I prefer that the functional leader be a Stakeholder in the Product Owner s world. Often standards, tools, training etc. will require time/money so
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I think I prefer that the functional leader be a Stakeholder in the Product
                                    Owner's world. Often standards, tools, training etc. will require
                                    time/money so those stories must be explained to the Product Owner in terms
                                    of business value so she can properly prioritize them. Otherwise there can
                                    be conflict for resources or the "business" stories always win out at the
                                    expense of increasing the capacity and responsive ability of the team. When
                                    all items are evaluated in terms of business value you might be surprised at
                                    what good decisions the Product Owners make in regards to technical matters.

                                    icbob - I could be off base

                                    Mike

                                    On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Christophe Louvion
                                    <chrislouvion@...>wrote:

                                    > My experience is that matrixed organizations work extremely well -when
                                    > set properly.
                                    > I've worked in purely product driven environments: over time, the
                                    > technology is fragmented, complexity goes up and velocity goes down.
                                    > (too many OS, languages, DBs, APIs, redundant sytems etc)
                                    > I've worked in purely functional driven environments: over time,
                                    > policies, organization boundaries, hand offs, buffers accumulate and
                                    > slow down response time to bring projects to a halt.
                                    >
                                    > Lean provides a great framework for matrixed organization:
                                    >
                                    > The Product champion responsible for product definition, delivery and
                                    > ROI. What does a product champion do?
                                    > -Understands the customer needs
                                    > -Provides product vision
                                    > -Decides on release goals and dates
                                    > -Manages the product backlog, prioritizing according to market value at
                                    > every iteration
                                    > -Sets and is responsible for product quality, uptime and performance
                                    > -Accepts and rejects work results
                                    > -Communicates with the company/customers about the product life cycle
                                    > -Focuses on the entire value stream, from customer request to cash
                                    > -Forecasts/justifies resources required
                                    >
                                    > Functional Leader is responsible for system improvement and people
                                    > management
                                    > -Provides organizational vision and functional guidance
                                    > -Takes responsibility for staff development and skill acquisition
                                    > -Provides career path guidelines
                                    > -Preserves Knowledge, has towering functional expertise
                                    > -Balances observer and contributor roles without sucking the
                                    > responsibility out of the team
                                    > -Establishes standards for processes, tools and platforms
                                    > -Advocates for continuous improvement (kaisen) for teams and the
                                    > organization at large, across the value stream
                                    > -Champions functional research
                                    > -Removes impediments across the value chain
                                    > -Provides feedback to the team, manages promotions, timesheets, vacation
                                    > requests, hire, discipline
                                    > -Gives individuals tools to be a great team member
                                    > -Assists product champion with ROI calculations
                                    > -Takes responsibility for cost effectiveness of the function
                                    > -Procures things for the team
                                    > -Maintains vendor relationship
                                    > -Coaches teams through conflict resolution
                                    >
                                    > With those clear orthogonal roles, there are still somewhat tensions in
                                    > different directions.Those are healthy. They mostly live around going to
                                    > market soon, and getting things uniformed.
                                    > Those are important questions to tackle, from both aspect.
                                    > You need strong people capable of negotiating, and clear rules how
                                    > conflict get resolved if no agreement can be made (i.e., who is the
                                    > final decider).
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hello, Mike. On Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 10:53:37 AM, you
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                                    > > > draw lots of demurrals. Maybe it still will, but so far, the votes
                                    > > > are in. :)
                                    > >
                                    > > Sorry, I was at lunch. You are mistaken, entirely mistaken.
                                    > >
                                    > > The matrix organization is the smoothest and most sensible way to
                                    > > deal with the realities of modern day business. By separating out
                                    > > one's personal skill set from the business purpose of one's work,
                                    > > and placing one in the hands of one's discipline manager and the
                                    > > other in the hands of the line manager. each and every detail of the
                                    > > employee's business life can be, and must be, figured out and
                                    > > implemented by the managers aforementioned.
                                    > >
                                    > > As such, this is the best possible deal until the Socialist Party is
                                    > > finally swept into office in this country, or at least until the
                                    > > current zombie crisis has been dealt with. As you know, the new
                                    > > faster-walking zombies are a threat to anyone who isn't moving very
                                    > > rapidly, and there is really no way to discern whether someone may
                                    > > be a zombie. As such, double cover from one's discipline manager AND
                                    > > one's line manager is the only way to remain safe in these troubled
                                    > > times.
                                    > >
                                    > > Also, we must not forget the ever-present danger represented by the
                                    > > space aliens who continue to harass our citizenry with their flying
                                    > > software and their disgusting and painful mental and anal probes.
                                    > > The applicability of the matrix organization here is clear, as
                                    > > anyone who has spent any time at all in a matrix organization will
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > > find an anal probe to be a pleasant respite from the work
                                    > > environment.
                                    > >
                                    > > I'm sorry to have to contradict you, as I hold you in great respect.
                                    > > But when you're wrong, you're wrong.
                                    > >
                                    > > Ron Jeffries
                                    > > www.XProgramming.com
                                    > > www.xprogramming.com/blog
                                    > > You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    --
                                    http://mikeonitstuff.net/ New Blog
                                    http://mikeonitstuff.com/ Old Blog
                                    http://mikeonbikes.blogspot.com/


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Christophe Louvion
                                    I don t reality disagree with your position and don t see them incompatible. I m using the term Product Champion rather than Product Owner, which, while not
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I don't reality disagree with your position and don't see them
                                      incompatible.
                                      I'm using the term Product Champion rather than Product Owner, which,
                                      while not limited to scrum, often carries the scrum baggage of not being
                                      technical.
                                      In my world, delivery teams are expected to follow XP practices. The
                                      Product Champion values them and understands how not following them
                                      mortgages the future of product - which is necessary /not sufficient/ to
                                      him a good PC.
                                      My functional leaders are involved in the backlog creation. A strong PC
                                      will get all the functional leaders his advisers and listens to them.
                                      But the buck ends with the PC, ultimately responsible for ROI, quality
                                      etc. A difficult role to fill in, but nonetheless possible.
                                      With the right people, this matrix structure works really well by
                                      balancing product / people, short term / long term etc.
                                      With the wrong people, oh well, who care how they're organized.

                                      C

                                      Mike Coon wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I think I prefer that the functional leader be a Stakeholder in the
                                      > Product
                                      > Owner's world. Often standards, tools, training etc. will require
                                      > time/money so those stories must be explained to the Product Owner in
                                      > terms
                                      > of business value so she can properly prioritize them. Otherwise there can
                                      > be conflict for resources or the "business" stories always win out at the
                                      > expense of increasing the capacity and responsive ability of the team.
                                      > When
                                      > all items are evaluated in terms of business value you might be
                                      > surprised at
                                      > what good decisions the Product Owners make in regards to technical
                                      > matters.
                                      >
                                      > icbob - I could be off base
                                      >
                                      > Mike
                                      >
                                      > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Christophe Louvion
                                      > <chrislouvion@... <mailto:chrislouvion%40yahoo.com>>wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > My experience is that matrixed organizations work extremely well -when
                                      > > set properly.
                                      > > I've worked in purely product driven environments: over time, the
                                      > > technology is fragmented, complexity goes up and velocity goes down.
                                      > > (too many OS, languages, DBs, APIs, redundant sytems etc)
                                      > > I've worked in purely functional driven environments: over time,
                                      > > policies, organization boundaries, hand offs, buffers accumulate and
                                      > > slow down response time to bring projects to a halt.
                                      > >
                                      > > Lean provides a great framework for matrixed organization:
                                      > >
                                      > > The Product champion responsible for product definition, delivery and
                                      > > ROI. What does a product champion do?
                                      > > -Understands the customer needs
                                      > > -Provides product vision
                                      > > -Decides on release goals and dates
                                      > > -Manages the product backlog, prioritizing according to market value at
                                      > > every iteration
                                      > > -Sets and is responsible for product quality, uptime and performance
                                      > > -Accepts and rejects work results
                                      > > -Communicates with the company/customers about the product life cycle
                                      > > -Focuses on the entire value stream, from customer request to cash
                                      > > -Forecasts/justifies resources required
                                      > >
                                      > > Functional Leader is responsible for system improvement and people
                                      > > management
                                      > > -Provides organizational vision and functional guidance
                                      > > -Takes responsibility for staff development and skill acquisition
                                      > > -Provides career path guidelines
                                      > > -Preserves Knowledge, has towering functional expertise
                                      > > -Balances observer and contributor roles without sucking the
                                      > > responsibility out of the team
                                      > > -Establishes standards for processes, tools and platforms
                                      > > -Advocates for continuous improvement (kaisen) for teams and the
                                      > > organization at large, across the value stream
                                      > > -Champions functional research
                                      > > -Removes impediments across the value chain
                                      > > -Provides feedback to the team, manages promotions, timesheets, vacation
                                      > > requests, hire, discipline
                                      > > -Gives individuals tools to be a great team member
                                      > > -Assists product champion with ROI calculations
                                      > > -Takes responsibility for cost effectiveness of the function
                                      > > -Procures things for the team
                                      > > -Maintains vendor relationship
                                      > > -Coaches teams through conflict resolution
                                      > >
                                      > > With those clear orthogonal roles, there are still somewhat tensions in
                                      > > different directions.Those are healthy. They mostly live around going to
                                      > > market soon, and getting things uniformed.
                                      > > Those are important questions to tackle, from both aspect.
                                      > > You need strong people capable of negotiating, and clear rules how
                                      > > conflict get resolved if no agreement can be made (i.e., who is the
                                      > > final decider).
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hello, Mike. On Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 10:53:37 AM, you
                                      > > > wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                                      > > > > draw lots of demurrals. Maybe it still will, but so far, the votes
                                      > > > > are in. :)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Sorry, I was at lunch. You are mistaken, entirely mistaken.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The matrix organization is the smoothest and most sensible way to
                                      > > > deal with the realities of modern day business. By separating out
                                      > > > one's personal skill set from the business purpose of one's work,
                                      > > > and placing one in the hands of one's discipline manager and the
                                      > > > other in the hands of the line manager. each and every detail of the
                                      > > > employee's business life can be, and must be, figured out and
                                      > > > implemented by the managers aforementioned.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > As such, this is the best possible deal until the Socialist Party is
                                      > > > finally swept into office in this country, or at least until the
                                      > > > current zombie crisis has been dealt with. As you know, the new
                                      > > > faster-walking zombies are a threat to anyone who isn't moving very
                                      > > > rapidly, and there is really no way to discern whether someone may
                                      > > > be a zombie. As such, double cover from one's discipline manager AND
                                      > > > one's line manager is the only way to remain safe in these troubled
                                      > > > times.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Also, we must not forget the ever-present danger represented by the
                                      > > > space aliens who continue to harass our citizenry with their flying
                                      > > > software and their disgusting and painful mental and anal probes.
                                      > > > The applicability of the matrix organization here is clear, as
                                      > > > anyone who has spent any time at all in a matrix organization will
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > > find an anal probe to be a pleasant respite from the work
                                      > > > environment.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I'm sorry to have to contradict you, as I hold you in great respect.
                                      > > > But when you're wrong, you're wrong.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Ron Jeffries
                                      > > > www.XProgramming.com
                                      > > > www.xprogramming.com/blog
                                      > > > You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > http://mikeonitstuff.net/ <http://mikeonitstuff.net/> New Blog
                                      > http://mikeonitstuff.com/ <http://mikeonitstuff.com/> Old Blog
                                      > http://mikeonbikes.blogspot.com/ <http://mikeonbikes.blogspot.com/>
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Markus Gaertner
                                      While reading through your reply, I realised that you seem to have a different Matrix, than I initially thought. Those Matrix Organizations I got to know are
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Oct 15, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        While reading through your reply, I realised that you seem to have a different
                                        Matrix, than I initially thought. Those Matrix Organizations I got to know are
                                        based on project vs. line management. The product managers are so far not part
                                        of the implementing team. What would you recommend/note to people working in
                                        those ways?

                                        Kind regards
                                        Markus Gärtner

                                        Christophe Louvion wrote:
                                        > My experience is that matrixed organizations work extremely well -when
                                        > set properly.
                                        > I've worked in purely product driven environments: over time, the
                                        > technology is fragmented, complexity goes up and velocity goes down.
                                        > (too many OS, languages, DBs, APIs, redundant sytems etc)
                                        > I've worked in purely functional driven environments: over time,
                                        > policies, organization boundaries, hand offs, buffers accumulate and
                                        > slow down response time to bring projects to a halt.
                                        >
                                        > Lean provides a great framework for matrixed organization:
                                        >
                                        > The Product champion responsible for product definition, delivery and
                                        > ROI. What does a product champion do?
                                        > -Understands the customer needs
                                        > -Provides product vision
                                        > -Decides on release goals and dates
                                        > -Manages the product backlog, prioritizing according to market value at
                                        > every iteration
                                        > -Sets and is responsible for product quality, uptime and performance
                                        > -Accepts and rejects work results
                                        > -Communicates with the company/customers about the product life cycle
                                        > -Focuses on the entire value stream, from customer request to cash
                                        > -Forecasts/justifies resources required
                                        >
                                        > Functional Leader is responsible for system improvement and people
                                        > management
                                        > -Provides organizational vision and functional guidance
                                        > -Takes responsibility for staff development and skill acquisition
                                        > -Provides career path guidelines
                                        > -Preserves Knowledge, has towering functional expertise
                                        > -Balances observer and contributor roles without sucking the
                                        > responsibility out of the team
                                        > -Establishes standards for processes, tools and platforms
                                        > -Advocates for continuous improvement (kaisen) for teams and the
                                        > organization at large, across the value stream
                                        > -Champions functional research
                                        > -Removes impediments across the value chain
                                        > -Provides feedback to the team, manages promotions, timesheets, vacation
                                        > requests, hire, discipline
                                        > -Gives individuals tools to be a great team member
                                        > -Assists product champion with ROI calculations
                                        > -Takes responsibility for cost effectiveness of the function
                                        > -Procures things for the team
                                        > -Maintains vendor relationship
                                        > -Coaches teams through conflict resolution
                                        >
                                        > With those clear orthogonal roles, there are still somewhat tensions in
                                        > different directions.Those are healthy. They mostly live around going to
                                        > market soon, and getting things uniformed.
                                        > Those are important questions to tackle, from both aspect.
                                        > You need strong people capable of negotiating, and clear rules how
                                        > conflict get resolved if no agreement can be made (i.e., who is the
                                        > final decider).
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                        >> Hello, Mike. On Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 10:53:37 AM, you
                                        >> wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >>> To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                                        >>> draw lots of demurrals. Maybe it still will, but so far, the votes
                                        >>> are in. :)
                                        >> Sorry, I was at lunch. You are mistaken, entirely mistaken.
                                        >>
                                        >> The matrix organization is the smoothest and most sensible way to
                                        >> deal with the realities of modern day business. By separating out
                                        >> one's personal skill set from the business purpose of one's work,
                                        >> and placing one in the hands of one's discipline manager and the
                                        >> other in the hands of the line manager. each and every detail of the
                                        >> employee's business life can be, and must be, figured out and
                                        >> implemented by the managers aforementioned.
                                        >>
                                        >> As such, this is the best possible deal until the Socialist Party is
                                        >> finally swept into office in this country, or at least until the
                                        >> current zombie crisis has been dealt with. As you know, the new
                                        >> faster-walking zombies are a threat to anyone who isn't moving very
                                        >> rapidly, and there is really no way to discern whether someone may
                                        >> be a zombie. As such, double cover from one's discipline manager AND
                                        >> one's line manager is the only way to remain safe in these troubled
                                        >> times.
                                        >>
                                        >> Also, we must not forget the ever-present danger represented by the
                                        >> space aliens who continue to harass our citizenry with their flying
                                        >> software and their disgusting and painful mental and anal probes.
                                        >> The applicability of the matrix organization here is clear, as
                                        >> anyone who has spent any time at all in a matrix organization will
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> find an anal probe to be a pleasant respite from the work
                                        >> environment.
                                        >>
                                        >> I'm sorry to have to contradict you, as I hold you in great respect.
                                        >> But when you're wrong, you're wrong.
                                        >>
                                        >> Ron Jeffries
                                        >> www.XProgramming.com
                                        >> www.xprogramming.com/blog
                                        >> You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Mike Coon
                                        Hey Christophe, I was reacting to what I read as having the business and the technical responsibilities split with two roadmaps. That is what I m trying to
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Oct 16, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hey Christophe,

                                          I was reacting to what I read as having the business and the technical
                                          responsibilities split with two roadmaps. That is what I'm trying to move
                                          us off of now because it often creates a Winners/Losers situation. As you
                                          describe it below with the PC being ultimately responsible that situation is
                                          improved. I guess we were saying the same thing...

                                          Mike

                                          On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 11:07 PM, Christophe Louvion <chrislouvion@...
                                          > wrote:

                                          > I don't reality disagree with your position and don't see them
                                          > incompatible.
                                          > I'm using the term Product Champion rather than Product Owner, which,
                                          > while not limited to scrum, often carries the scrum baggage of not being
                                          > technical.
                                          > In my world, delivery teams are expected to follow XP practices. The
                                          > Product Champion values them and understands how not following them
                                          > mortgages the future of product - which is necessary /not sufficient/ to
                                          > him a good PC.
                                          > My functional leaders are involved in the backlog creation. A strong PC
                                          > will get all the functional leaders his advisers and listens to them.
                                          > But the buck ends with the PC, ultimately responsible for ROI, quality
                                          > etc. A difficult role to fill in, but nonetheless possible.
                                          > With the right people, this matrix structure works really well by
                                          > balancing product / people, short term / long term etc.
                                          > With the wrong people, oh well, who care how they're organized.
                                          >
                                          > C
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Mike Coon wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I think I prefer that the functional leader be a Stakeholder in the
                                          > > Product
                                          > > Owner's world. Often standards, tools, training etc. will require
                                          > > time/money so those stories must be explained to the Product Owner in
                                          > > terms
                                          > > of business value so she can properly prioritize them. Otherwise there
                                          > can
                                          > > be conflict for resources or the "business" stories always win out at the
                                          > > expense of increasing the capacity and responsive ability of the team.
                                          > > When
                                          > > all items are evaluated in terms of business value you might be
                                          > > surprised at
                                          > > what good decisions the Product Owners make in regards to technical
                                          > > matters.
                                          > >
                                          > > icbob - I could be off base
                                          > >
                                          > > Mike
                                          > >
                                          > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Christophe Louvion
                                          > > <chrislouvion@... <chrislouvion%40yahoo.com> <mailto:
                                          > chrislouvion%40yahoo.com <chrislouvion%2540yahoo.com>>>wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > > > My experience is that matrixed organizations work extremely well -when
                                          > > > set properly.
                                          > > > I've worked in purely product driven environments: over time, the
                                          > > > technology is fragmented, complexity goes up and velocity goes down.
                                          > > > (too many OS, languages, DBs, APIs, redundant sytems etc)
                                          > > > I've worked in purely functional driven environments: over time,
                                          > > > policies, organization boundaries, hand offs, buffers accumulate and
                                          > > > slow down response time to bring projects to a halt.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Lean provides a great framework for matrixed organization:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The Product champion responsible for product definition, delivery and
                                          > > > ROI. What does a product champion do?
                                          > > > -Understands the customer needs
                                          > > > -Provides product vision
                                          > > > -Decides on release goals and dates
                                          > > > -Manages the product backlog, prioritizing according to market value at
                                          > > > every iteration
                                          > > > -Sets and is responsible for product quality, uptime and performance
                                          > > > -Accepts and rejects work results
                                          > > > -Communicates with the company/customers about the product life cycle
                                          > > > -Focuses on the entire value stream, from customer request to cash
                                          > > > -Forecasts/justifies resources required
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Functional Leader is responsible for system improvement and people
                                          > > > management
                                          > > > -Provides organizational vision and functional guidance
                                          > > > -Takes responsibility for staff development and skill acquisition
                                          > > > -Provides career path guidelines
                                          > > > -Preserves Knowledge, has towering functional expertise
                                          > > > -Balances observer and contributor roles without sucking the
                                          > > > responsibility out of the team
                                          > > > -Establishes standards for processes, tools and platforms
                                          > > > -Advocates for continuous improvement (kaisen) for teams and the
                                          > > > organization at large, across the value stream
                                          > > > -Champions functional research
                                          > > > -Removes impediments across the value chain
                                          > > > -Provides feedback to the team, manages promotions, timesheets,
                                          > vacation
                                          > > > requests, hire, discipline
                                          > > > -Gives individuals tools to be a great team member
                                          > > > -Assists product champion with ROI calculations
                                          > > > -Takes responsibility for cost effectiveness of the function
                                          > > > -Procures things for the team
                                          > > > -Maintains vendor relationship
                                          > > > -Coaches teams through conflict resolution
                                          > > >
                                          > > > With those clear orthogonal roles, there are still somewhat tensions in
                                          > > > different directions.Those are healthy. They mostly live around going
                                          > to
                                          > > > market soon, and getting things uniformed.
                                          > > > Those are important questions to tackle, from both aspect.
                                          > > > You need strong people capable of negotiating, and clear rules how
                                          > > > conflict get resolved if no agreement can be made (i.e., who is the
                                          > > > final decider).
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Hello, Mike. On Wednesday, October 15, 2008, at 10:53:37 AM, you
                                          > > > > wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > > To tell you the truth, I thought sure my polarizing statement would
                                          > > > > > draw lots of demurrals. Maybe it still will, but so far, the votes
                                          > > > > > are in. :)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Sorry, I was at lunch. You are mistaken, entirely mistaken.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The matrix organization is the smoothest and most sensible way to
                                          > > > > deal with the realities of modern day business. By separating out
                                          > > > > one's personal skill set from the business purpose of one's work,
                                          > > > > and placing one in the hands of one's discipline manager and the
                                          > > > > other in the hands of the line manager. each and every detail of the
                                          > > > > employee's business life can be, and must be, figured out and
                                          > > > > implemented by the managers aforementioned.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > As such, this is the best possible deal until the Socialist Party is
                                          > > > > finally swept into office in this country, or at least until the
                                          > > > > current zombie crisis has been dealt with. As you know, the new
                                          > > > > faster-walking zombies are a threat to anyone who isn't moving very
                                          > > > > rapidly, and there is really no way to discern whether someone may
                                          > > > > be a zombie. As such, double cover from one's discipline manager AND
                                          > > > > one's line manager is the only way to remain safe in these troubled
                                          > > > > times.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Also, we must not forget the ever-present danger represented by the
                                          > > > > space aliens who continue to harass our citizenry with their flying
                                          > > > > software and their disgusting and painful mental and anal probes.
                                          > > > > The applicability of the matrix organization here is clear, as
                                          > > > > anyone who has spent any time at all in a matrix organization will
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > find an anal probe to be a pleasant respite from the work
                                          > > > > environment.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I'm sorry to have to contradict you, as I hold you in great respect.
                                          > > > > But when you're wrong, you're wrong.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Ron Jeffries
                                          > > > > www.XProgramming.com
                                          > > > > www.xprogramming.com/blog
                                          > > > > You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --
                                          > > http://mikeonitstuff.net/ <http://mikeonitstuff.net/> New Blog
                                          > > http://mikeonitstuff.com/ <http://mikeonitstuff.com/> Old Blog
                                          > > http://mikeonbikes.blogspot.com/ <http://mikeonbikes.blogspot.com/>
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >



                                          --
                                          http://mikeonitstuff.net/ New Blog
                                          http://mikeonitstuff.com/ Old Blog
                                          http://mikeonbikes.blogspot.com/


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Meade Rubenstein
                                          From my experience Matrix Orgs are put into place because they are easier to control and understand by Sr. Management - they follow the McDonald s structure of
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Nov 1, 2008
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                                            From my experience Matrix Orgs are put into place because they are
                                            easier to control and understand by Sr. Management - they follow the
                                            McDonald's structure of separating out specific functional areas (fry
                                            person, cashier, etc.) - they tend to be efficient, but not effective
                                            (lots of work gets done, but usually not very beneficial work).
                                            Functional/Team Orgs are put into place when a strong CIO/CTO is
                                            present who understands how to provide try business benefit from IT
                                            people. Functional Orgs usually require more mature/able managers
                                            with the ability/will to focus on the important and turn away the
                                            lower priority (but many times squeakier) business managers.

                                            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Victor" <vmgoldberg@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Does anybody have any experience or comments about matrix organizations?
                                            >
                                            > Thanks,
                                            > Víctor
                                            >
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