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Re: [XP] Re: Pair programming duration

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  • Ron Jeffries
    Hello, Matt. On Tuesday, September 23, 2008, at 10:46:47 AM, you ... That would be some new kind of require that I wasn t previously familiar with. If I was
    Message 1 of 87 , Sep 23, 2008
      Hello, Matt. On Tuesday, September 23, 2008, at 10:46:47 AM, you
      wrote:

      > When I read "gives the dev team a license to write the tests and a
      > defense...." I read "There are some guys who already *want* to try this
      > and just need some cover from upper management"

      > I got the impression that "requiring" TDD was meant to provide that
      > cover... not force people to do things they don't want to do.

      That would be some new kind of "require" that I wasn't previously
      familiar with. If I was going to give cover, I wouldn't tell people
      they were required to do things, but I would inform management that
      people were going to be doing things and to butt out. (Politely and
      respectfully, of course.)

      >> > Now after having given these practices a fair chance the team might
      > decide
      >> > they are all a bunch of hooey in which case we can talk about it.

      >> No one gives things they are required to do a fair chance. It just
      >> doesn't happen.

      > And I read "after having given these practices a fair chance..." I read
      > "The team isn't sure TDD will work but they want to give it a try and
      > see..."

      Yes. The second concern is how will they know how to do it.

      > I haven't ever been a consultant (doesn't even sound fun) so maybe I
      > don't have the history of working with dysfunctional teams that is
      > coloring your reading. I honestly think both you and Joshua are reading
      > a lot into Mike's situation that isn't there.

      > But I am probably wrong.

      You could be right. We just get to read the words.

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      www.xprogramming.com/blog
      Inigo Montoya: You are wonderful!
      Man in Black: Thank you. I have worked hard to become so.
    • Ron Jeffries
      Hello, Matt. On Tuesday, September 23, 2008, at 10:46:47 AM, you ... That would be some new kind of require that I wasn t previously familiar with. If I was
      Message 87 of 87 , Sep 23, 2008
        Hello, Matt. On Tuesday, September 23, 2008, at 10:46:47 AM, you
        wrote:

        > When I read "gives the dev team a license to write the tests and a
        > defense...." I read "There are some guys who already *want* to try this
        > and just need some cover from upper management"

        > I got the impression that "requiring" TDD was meant to provide that
        > cover... not force people to do things they don't want to do.

        That would be some new kind of "require" that I wasn't previously
        familiar with. If I was going to give cover, I wouldn't tell people
        they were required to do things, but I would inform management that
        people were going to be doing things and to butt out. (Politely and
        respectfully, of course.)

        >> > Now after having given these practices a fair chance the team might
        > decide
        >> > they are all a bunch of hooey in which case we can talk about it.

        >> No one gives things they are required to do a fair chance. It just
        >> doesn't happen.

        > And I read "after having given these practices a fair chance..." I read
        > "The team isn't sure TDD will work but they want to give it a try and
        > see..."

        Yes. The second concern is how will they know how to do it.

        > I haven't ever been a consultant (doesn't even sound fun) so maybe I
        > don't have the history of working with dysfunctional teams that is
        > coloring your reading. I honestly think both you and Joshua are reading
        > a lot into Mike's situation that isn't there.

        > But I am probably wrong.

        You could be right. We just get to read the words.

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        www.xprogramming.com/blog
        Inigo Montoya: You are wonderful!
        Man in Black: Thank you. I have worked hard to become so.
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