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Re: Iteration Length

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  • davenicolette
    Hi Kim, I get the sense that your comment implies a BDUF mindset insofar as it sounds as if you see the value of customer involvement as a way to ensure the
    Message 1 of 49 , Jun 3, 2008
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      Hi Kim,

      I get the sense that your comment implies a BDUF mindset insofar as it
      sounds as if you see the value of customer involvement as a way to
      ensure the requirements are properly understood early, before the team
      gets too far into development. I think what we're after is a
      fundamentally different approach to requirements in which the customer
      constantly updates his/her own understanding of business needs through
      collaboration with the team throughout development.

      To borrow the "navigation" metaphor people like to use when explaining
      the value of short feedback loops, if we navigated using your approach
      we would make frequent, small course corrections early in the journey,
      and then just stay on the same course for a long time. We're likely to
      miss our destination. We need to continue making frequent, small
      course corrections throughout the journey.

      The fact that most customers are not available to XP teams as much as
      we would like them to be is an artifact of traditional organizational
      structures and role definitions. It's tempting to back off from
      agility so that we can avoid confrontation at work, but I wonder if it
      would be preferable to help customers redefine their role with respect
      to IT projects so that they can take full advantage of the potential
      of XP.

      Dave

      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Kim Gräsman"
      <kim.grasman@...> wrote:
      >
      > Chet,
      >
      > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:24 AM, Chet Hendrickson
      > <lists@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Is one visit per iteration enough? Or, is that just the best we
      can get away with?
      >
      > I wonder if the necessity of having the customer available 100%
      > declines as the rest of the team learns more about the customer's
      > expectations and about the domain in general?
      >
      > Could an initial effort where the customer is available full-time, say
      > 5-10 iterations, be enough, and that they just check in every once in
      > a while after that to answer questions and help out with priorities
      > (say twice per iteration). In my mind, they would need to be present
      > for the whole of iteration planning, anyway.
      >
      > - Kim
      >
    • Kim Gräsman
      Hi Chris, ... I ve had some time to mull this over, and this is an excellent point. Within a single release plan, I think it may be doable, but then the
      Message 49 of 49 , Jun 15, 2008
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        Hi Chris,

        On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 14:44, Chris Hulan <2chulan@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Kim Gräsman <kim.grasman@...>
        > > ...
        > > from. The way I see it is, if everybody shares a common understanding
        > > of what is to be done and how, the *need* for collaboration is no
        > > longer as urgent. That's a big IF, right there, but I don't see it as
        > > ...
        >
        > I think the one problem here is the assumption that "what is to be done" is not going to change.
        > As soon as you give the customer "what they want"TM, they realize that what they really wanted was
        > something different and/or something more.
        >
        > You need the customer collaboration because the target is always moving.

        I've had some time to mull this over, and this is an excellent point.
        Within a single release plan, I think it may be doable, but then the
        customer would probably have to be re-established in the team.

        Also, my point that a single customer rep could run multiple projects
        in parallel seems less and less interesting, because multitasking
        generally does not make perfect.

        Many people with the organizational pull and knowledge to become
        Customers are fairly busy, so I suppose one could make the case that
        they could spend an initial time cultivating a team and then spend
        more time on their other responsibilities, but having them
        ever-present is surely better.

        Thanks for bouncing ideas,
        - Kim
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