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Re: [XP] Really Vouching For someone

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  • J. B. Rainsberger
    ... I would agree to allowing others to initiate contact by e-mail. ... J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca Your guide to software craftsmanship
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 1, 2008
      On Jun 1, 2008, at 20:54 , Cory Foy wrote:

      > I suggested this in the WeVouchFor thread, but it didn't seem to get
      > any
      > traction.
      >
      > It would seem to be that when you want to know how well someone is
      > doing, in the software industry, there are two things you want. A
      > proven
      > track record, and recent experience.
      >
      > The problem with certifications and online vouches is that they are
      > text, so they don't go away.
      >
      > Would you as an individual be willing to really "vouch" for someone -
      > that is, provide some sort of contact information, whether by email,
      > phone, IM, etc, where someone could get a hold of you to talk about a
      > specific individual's experience?
      >
      > We'd perhaps have to have safeguards like I have to approve you if you
      > want to vouch for me, but it seems like the simple act of requiring
      > actual contact with the vouching party would help reduce many of the
      > issues (though not all).
      >
      I would agree to allowing others to initiate contact by e-mail.
      ----
      J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca
      Your guide to software craftsmanship
      JUnit Recipes: Practical Methods for Programmer Testing
      2005 Gordon Pask Award for contributions to Agile Software Practice
    • Amanda Abelove
      Interesting thought. Although I d wince at entering contact info. I can always send the person that wants to buy from me an email with my references. Plus just
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 1, 2008
        Interesting thought. Although I'd wince at entering contact info. I can
        always send the person that wants to buy from me an email with my
        references. Plus just allowing people that vouched for me to get emails
        lowers my personal brand. Unless I am about to close a deal, I don't want to
        bother my references. They are busy people.



        If a recruiter or a coworker wants my endorsement, but I don't feel
        comfortable, can I choose a lower level of endorsement like "Thanks to?"
        Like "Thanks to Bob, I chose the right training school." Or something less
        than an endorsement?







        _____

        From: J. B. Rainsberger [mailto:jbrains762@...]
        Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 7:49 PM
        To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [XP] Really Vouching For someone




        On Jun 1, 2008, at 20:54 , Cory Foy wrote:

        > I suggested this in the WeVouchFor thread, but it didn't seem to get
        > any
        > traction.
        >
        > It would seem to be that when you want to know how well someone is
        > doing, in the software industry, there are two things you want. A
        > proven
        > track record, and recent experience.
        >
        > The problem with certifications and online vouches is that they are
        > text, so they don't go away.
        >
        > Would you as an individual be willing to really "vouch" for someone -
        > that is, provide some sort of contact information, whether by email,
        > phone, IM, etc, where someone could get a hold of you to talk about a
        > specific individual's experience?
        >
        > We'd perhaps have to have safeguards like I have to approve you if you
        > want to vouch for me, but it seems like the simple act of requiring
        > actual contact with the vouching party would help reduce many of the
        > issues (though not all).
        >
        I would agree to allowing others to initiate contact by e-mail.
        ----
        J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains <http://www.jbrains.ca> ca
        Your guide to software craftsmanship
        JUnit Recipes: Practical Methods for Programmer Testing
        2005 Gordon Pask Award for contributions to Agile Software Practice





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Amanda Abelove
        I m struggling with this on a product right now. Writing on someone s wall is too vague. A personal endorsement is awkward and socially uncomfortable. I ve
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 2, 2008
          I'm struggling with this on a product right now. Writing on someone's wall
          is too vague. A personal endorsement is awkward and socially uncomfortable.
          I've come up with sending "I owe you # beer(s) for." republishing on
          twitter, counting up the beer points on the profile. I'm toying with
          creating mad lib style thank you notes.



          Entry:



          "Thanks to [Pradeep] our project delivered value [better / faster / cheaper
          / smarter]. His role was [Project Manager]."

          [Comment]



          Profile:



          Pradeep Maharesh

          (pic)

          (Last twitter | Follow)



          Pradeep is owed 2,003 beers.

          10 people said Pradeep made their last project smarter.

          3 people said Pradeep made their last project better.



          Comments:



          [thumbnail] "Pradeep is super sharp and detail oriented. He never misses the
          mark." - Barney S.

          [thumbnail] "When I get my PMP, I want to be like Pradeep." - Wan Chen



          Who does Pradeep owe a beer to?

          Who's helped Pradeep?



          Dunno if that helps.



          A



          _____

          From: Cory Foy [mailto:usergroup@...]
          Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 6:55 PM
          To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [XP] Really Vouching For someone



          I suggested this in the WeVouchFor thread, but it didn't seem to get any
          traction.

          It would seem to be that when you want to know how well someone is
          doing, in the software industry, there are two things you want. A proven
          track record, and recent experience.

          The problem with certifications and online vouches is that they are
          text, so they don't go away.

          Would you as an individual be willing to really "vouch" for someone -
          that is, provide some sort of contact information, whether by email,
          phone, IM, etc, where someone could get a hold of you to talk about a
          specific individual's experience?

          We'd perhaps have to have safeguards like I have to approve you if you
          want to vouch for me, but it seems like the simple act of requiring
          actual contact with the vouching party would help reduce many of the
          issues (though not all).

          --
          Cory Foy
          http://www.cornetde <http://www.cornetdesign.com> sign.com





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Matt
          Cory, ... any ... proven ... This brings up an interesting point... all of the threads on the WeVouchFor thing have focused on two groups: 1) Those being
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 2, 2008
            Cory,


            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Cory Foy <usergroup@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I suggested this in the WeVouchFor thread, but it didn't seem to get
            any
            > traction.
            >
            > It would seem to be that when you want to know how well someone is
            > doing, in the software industry, there are two things you want. A
            proven
            > track record, and recent experience.


            This brings up an interesting point... all of the threads on the
            WeVouchFor thing have focused on two groups:

            1) Those being vouched for

            2) Those doing the vouching

            But the true "customer" is the person who is reading the voucher and
            making a decision. Do we have any "customers" that we can ask what
            *they* would like to see?

            Granted the first 2 groups are customers in a sense so their input
            matters but without this last group... the first two are kind of
            pointless.

            Matt
          • Laurent Bossavit
            Hi Matt, ... Well spotted. ... I m in contact with one (maybe two) already; I would definitely welcome more folks representing that constituency. One upcoming
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 2, 2008
              Hi Matt,

              > But the true "customer" is the person who is reading the voucher and
              > making a decision.

              Well spotted.

              > Do we have any "customers" that we can ask what *they* would like to
              > see?


              I'm in contact with one (maybe two) already; I would definitely
              welcome more folks representing that constituency.

              One upcoming feature I have in mind is for people to be able to post a
              request to the site, framed roughly as follows: "Can you recommend
              someone who would be a good fit for <X>" ? In a similar vein to
              endorsements, I'm hoping that this would result in a different kind of
              conversation than a job site, if we structure things right. Rather
              than list keywords (Java, TDD, blah, blah) we could encourage
              requesters to describe the project (or whatever it is they need
              someone for), and let community members decide which skills to
              recommend. Normally you would recommend someone you trust and have a
              reason to endorse.

              Would anyone else here be in a position to use that feature ?

              Laurent Bossavit
              laurent@...
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